What the hell happened?????

Bar · Post by **Bar** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:58 am

Okay, i am working on a Viper MKVII. The "placeholder" clear canopy is a found item from the Polar Lights Scorpion, chopped to fit the available space.
So, yesterday, i neded to dremel out the nose intake and one of the intakes above the canopy. I took the piece out to the garage and started work. By the time i was finished working on the parts, the canopy was totally clouded over. I never went ANYWHERE NEAR the canopy piece. I never touched it. But for some reason, the canopy totally clouded over... It kind of looks like the effect that happens when CA cures behind a canopy.
Anybody got any ideas what went wrong? I have tried cleaning the canopy, i have tried polishing it, but nothing works.
It was FINE before i started dremelling!!!
Here's what it looks like now...
What happened?
And how can i fix it?

paraclete1 · Post by **paraclete1** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:20 am

Bummer, is it possible that while you were drilling, you hit a pocket of resin that hadn't fully cured and maybe the fumes found their way to the inside of the canopy? It is fogged from the inside isn't it?

I know I've drilled into a thick section of resin before and had liquid residue escape all over my drill and me, so that's all I can think of at the moment.

The base didn't overheat while you were drilling did it?

Post by **LindaSmile** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:33 am

Gremlins.

Bar · Post by **Bar** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:08 am

At this stage, the only explanation i CAN discount is Gremlins...

paraclete1 wrote: Bummer, is it possible that while you were drilling, you hit a pocket of resin that hadn't fully cured and maybe the fumes found their way to the inside of the canopy? It is fogged from the inside isn't it?

I don't think that was it. BOTH sides are fogged.
This casting has been cured for two years now...

paraclete1 wrote:I know I've drilled into a thick section of resin before and had liquid residue escape all over my drill and me, so that's all I can think of at the moment.

The base didn't overheat while you were drilling did it?

There wasn't a lot of drilling done. It took less than five minutes to do what i needed to.

It's a real conundrum...

starmanmm · Post by **starmanmm** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:02 pm

If I am reading right, sounds like what ever you used to glue the canopy did not like clear parts. Now you did not cut this piece correct?

Sounds like the only choice is to get another canopy and use a different glue.

kenlilly106 · Post by **kenlilly106** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:57 pm

What was the canopy glued on with?

How long had it set?

Does the fogging appear to be in the plastic or on it?

Ken

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:07 pm

Bar,

It sounds like the Dremeling heated the CA, causing it to vent cyanoacrylate (some, like butyl and octyl, like heat to depolymerize and then attack oils). Cyanoacrylate likes to bond with oils, including mold release and any styrene solvents that sometimes leach out. I bet the clear part had a fine film of mold release oil on it and, after long, slow exposure during the heat from dremeling, caused the fogging

I would scribe around the canopy seam and remove it. Then, I would dip in Future. If this cures it, you know it was CA fumes.

If the Future fails, or is not entirely successful, you can buff out the offending fog. First, wet sand with the absolute finest grit sandpaper you have. Replace water with fresh water. Get a cheap nail buffing set from the women's section of the pharmacy. Buff in the order of grades directed on the package. Change water in between buffing grades. When it's all done, you'll see the fog is more of just a glare now. Dip in Future again and you're set.

Nail buffing sets are the only thing I use to polish clear parts. They work better than polishing pastes and films.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

Bar · Post by **Bar** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:58 am

starmanmm wrote:If I am reading right, sounds like what ever you used to glue the canopy did not like clear parts. Now you did not cut this piece correct?

Sounds like the only choice is to get another canopy and use a different glue.

Yeah.
As it's only a Scorpion canopy, it's no SERIOUS loss.
And the canopy was NOT glued on...

kenlilly106 wrote:What was the canopy glued on with?

How long had it set?

Does the fogging appear to be in the plastic or on it?

Ken

The fogging is on both sides of the canopy.
It was NOT GLUED ON. Held on with blutack.
Just sitting in place...

Lt. Z0mBe wrote: Bar,

It sounds like the Dremeling heated the CA, causing it to vent cyanoacrylate (some, like butyl and octyl, like heat to depolymerize and then attack oils). Cyanoacrylate likes to bond with oils, including mold release and any styrene solvents that sometimes leach out. I bet the clear part had a fine film of mold release oil on it and, after long, slow exposure during the heat from dremeling, caused the fogging

I should have made it clear that the canopy wasn't attached. It was just held in place with blutack.
There has NEVER been CA anywhere near this master.

Lt. Z0mBe wrote:I would scribe around the canopy seam and remove it. Then, I would dip in Future. If this cures it, you know it was CA fumes.

I am going to try this tomorrow. The weird thing is that the canopy is TOTALLY frosted. I KNOW what "the effects of fogging by CA" look like, and this looks like it was done with some sort of professional fogging compound!!! If such a thing exists, that is...

Lt. Z0mBe wrote:If the Future fails, or is not entirely successful, you can buff out the offending fog. First, wet sand with the absolute finest grit sandpaper you have. Replace water with fresh water. Get a cheap nail buffing set from the women's section of the pharmacy. Buff in the order of grades directed on the package. Change water in between buffing grades. When it's all done, you'll see the fog is more of just a glare now. Dip in Future again and you're set.

Nail buffing sets are the only thing I use to polish clear parts. They work better than polishing pastes and films.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

That does indeed help.
As i said before, it's no SERIOUS loss, i just want to know what happened so i can possibly avoind it in future!
If i knew then what i know now, i would have removed the canopy before hollowing out the nose!
As it is, i think i will be using the canopy eventually as the master for the piece, because it's soo perfectly shaped! It will need some altering, and need a couple of pieces skinned with Aves, so it was going to have to be sanded anyway. It's just nice to have a placeholder that's clear to people get an idea what the thing will look like with the glass in place!!!

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/A ... CF0128.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/A ... CF0129.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/A ... CF0130.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/A ... CF0130.jpg

kenlilly106 · Post by **kenlilly106** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:46 pm

Is it possible there were some kind of chemical vapors near the canopy while you were out in the garage?

Ken

seam-filler · Post by **seam-filler** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:37 am

What material is the canopy?

Some acetates and acrylics can fog with thermal shock (going from warm to cold or vice versa). there are two ways to spot if this has happened:-

1. Look at it under a reasonably powerful magnifying glass, and if, under magnification, the fogging actually has some crazing in it the this is the likely cause.

2. A bit easier to spot is if there is a bluish tint when you reflect light at an acute angle, then the crazing in the plastic is defracting the light.

The crazing is right through the plastic and no amount of poklishing will fix it.

Bar · Post by **Bar** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:48 am

kenlilly106 wrote:Is it possible there were some kind of chemical vapors near the canopy while you were out in the garage?

Ken

No uncovered materials in my garage...
The only thing in the air was dust from the drilling of the resin.

seam-filler wrote: What material is the canopy?

Clear styrene?
It's the canopy from the Polar Lights Scorpion kit.

seam-filler wrote:Some acetates and acrylics can fog with thermal shock (going from warm to cold or vice versa). there are two ways to spot if this has happened:-

1. Look at it under a reasonably powerful magnifying glass, and if, under magnification, the fogging actually has some crazing in it the this is the likely cause.

2. A bit easier to spot is if there is a bluish tint when you reflect light at an acute angle, then the crazing in the plastic is defracting the light.

The crazing is right through the plastic and no amount of poklishing will fix it.

I don't have a magnifying glass.
All i want to do is try and prevent this from happening again...
But i suppose the way top do that is to make sure any replacement glass for the Viper is never allowed to be in the garage while i am drilling resin...

Marco Scheloske · Post by **Marco Scheloske** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:59 am

Fascinating.

I never saw such an effect before.

Hm... how about a test to duplicate what happened?

Take another cockpit, put it on the same material that viper is amde of, and start drilling somewhere - just now LOOK at the cockpit and try to see what happens to it.

My vote is "fume from the resin", too, no matter how long it had cured before - I mean, when you drill resin there is always, always that special smell in the air - I believe it comes from fumes that are released from the resin because of the heat while drilling.

Maybe those frosted your cockpit. It would explain why it is frosted from both sides: Those fumes were able to slip under the not-glued cockpit.

Bar · Post by **Bar** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:44 am

Interesting!
It makes as much sense as any other explanation!
I just wanted to try and get to the bottom of it so i didn't repeat the same mistakes again!
I don't want to have to waste another Scorpion Canopy! those things are like gold now!

paraclete1 · Post by **paraclete1** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:15 pm

Is it possible the blue tac itself contributed to it or maybe a combination of the blue tac, heat from the drilling and resin residue? I assume you've used blu tac before to hold parts in place, but how long was it on the part?

Bar · Post by **Bar** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:31 am

paraclete1 wrote:Is it possible the blue tac itself contributed to it or maybe a combination of the blue tac, heat from the drilling and resin residue? I assume you've used blu tac before to hold parts in place, but how long was it on the part?

I am not sure what the answer is to that question. The blu-tack will be about six months old. But you are correct that it MIGHT be some combination of factors.
Such complications in the building of scale model kit masters!!!

raser13 · Post by **raser13** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:13 am

maybe your pilot snuck in a cigarette while you weren't looking??

Bar · Post by **Bar** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:04 am

raser13 wrote: maybe your pilot snuck in a cigarette while you weren't looking??

I have no idea still...
But it's not the end of the world....