Advanced. Weathering. Pastels

[starmanmm]

Thanks for the info.... not cheap I see, but good to know what I am now looking for.

[Dukat, S.G.]

Gents,

I'm trying to blend three different powder colors: a yellow, black and a blue-green. The goal's to wind up with a dark yellow-green.

I've not had much luck, though. It seems every time I get the stuff wet (I'm using Windex; I can explain the madness behind that later!), it either dries almost black or a shade VERY close to the pre-mixed green.

This is puzzling. Granted, the work I did today was a bit hurried: I needed to hit the road and I think I'm coming down with something to boot :-|

I guess what I'm asking is, am I wasting time trying to blend colors, or do I need to just be more patient about the process?

Thanks!

[goettervonkobol]

You can use watercolors when the modelpaint is "clammy" then it will hold nice... if the modelpaint is dry, you can change it (very easy) with water until it looks like you want. very cheap very nice. I advise you to use a dark brown.

[jdeleonardis]

Have any of you ever used the weathering system from Bragdon Enterprises?http://www.bragdonent.com/weather.htm (Ive done some searches here on the site, and dont see it mentioned - apologies if I have missed it!)

It seems like it might be interesting stuff

[Jonas Calhoun]

It's got some adhesive in the powders. I use them all the time...

Dan

[jdeleonardis]

I purchased some of the bragdon powders, and I really like the result I got with them. Can they have dullcoat painted over the top of them???

[Starfleetsof]

I see people have been commenting about using pastels for weathering. I am going to be building a Galaxy-class starship model that will involve a number of battle damaged areas. Part of that is scorching around the damaged areas. I have heard that pastels are a good way to go, and some people use an air brush. I am not very familiar how to really make either technique work or which technique is best.

Are there any suggestions on which I should use?

[Kylwell]

Pastels are easier to master and mistakes are easier to fix than an airbrush. Airbrushed marks are more permanent.

[christrom]

I've had a lot of success with using pastels as a filter on models. I've airbrushed most of the weathering with acrylics and then made a mix of pastels with water with a tiny bit of hand soap. I apply these as you would a watercolour wash, thinned heavily, liberally over the dried acrylic airbrushing, and I've dropped in various colours while the surface is still wet.

Once dry, the pastels stick really well (possibly because I don't tend to sand my paintjobs). Areas can be removed by scrubbing with a damp cotton swab, or even a pencil eraser used gently.

Pastels for me work better than watercolour because the pigment is more coarse and is easier to move around. It does an excellent job of subtly dirtying up a model. Try it, you may love it! - No oils for me

[Kylwell]

I swing both ways and feel that it all depends on the look I want. Nothing simulates dust like pastels (huh, I wonder why?) but oil run the roost for fine detail enhancement (i.e. a wash).

I've recently been working with Holbien's new line of oils and they are the finest I've ever worked with. Damned near like night & day compared to student grade oils.

[starmanmm]

christrom... I don't understand this statement....

"and I've dropped in various colours while the surface is still wet."
Are you adding more pastels over the mixture as it dries?

[christrom]

Yeah, that's right - The pastel solution is very watery and while it is still damp I have other pre mixed slightly stronger tones and paint these directly on top, allowing them to run and flow.

I'm a watercolourist by nature, so wanted to be able to do this on my models. The secret is to use plenty of water, and if you are covering a large flat piece you want to hold the model at about 30 degrees from horizontal, so when you apply the watery solution it naturally flows all in one direction. You start from the top and work your way to the bottom in horizontal strokes. You will end up with a little reservoir of paint at the bottom where it all collects and all you do then is get a dry brush or cotton swab (Q-tip) to soak up the accumulated water. This way you avoid weird shapes forming when it dries. Remember to leave the model at this angle until dry. It sounds complicated but it is a very well-known watercolour painting technique.

I have tried this with watercolour but have found that because watercolour is so finely ground it is difficult to control. Because pastel scrapings are a little thicker, they tend to 'stay' better and you can move the particles around with your brush more effectively.

The BEST bit about this though is going back once it is dry with an eraser. It is just like removing pencil and you can either lighten it ever so slighty by adding a little pressure, or near enough remove it totally using more pressure. Better still, take a knife to the eraser and cut some really sharp shapes and you can get some really accurate, crisp erasing.

[starmanmm]

This technic sounds like an interesting class for WF. Hint, hint, hint.

[christrom]

Sorry, I'm being thick - what is 'WF'?

[Kylwell]

Wonderfest

Not to be confused with Wonder Festival...

[christrom]

I got you, bit far for me (uk) but I may put together a video

[starmanmm]

That would be cool.

Post it on YouTube and drop the link back here!

[nkuzmik]

Any advice on removing pastel from bare plastic?

I used some Tamiya black pastel to put some smutz in the thruster port of a GUNPLA kit but got some where I didn't want it. Tried water and alcohol, topically not internally. Now my white panel has a kind of uniform dinge, which I'll have to remember for later, but not the look I was going for this time.

Any suggestions?

[TER-OR]

A bit of soap and scrub with a soft toothbrush maybe?

[jpolacchi]

I had thought of doing something similar not knowing if anyone had done it already or tried it?I was thinking of just mixing some pastel powder with water(or rubbing alcohol),applying them accordingly (as a wash)and allowing them to dry,then maybe rubbing them with a Q-TIP to make it streak,or to rub it to simulate a superficial "rusting" and/or oxidation look, or to just "leave it as is" depending on the effect one it aiming for.

[seam-filler]

Water will do. A few drops of white glue (PVA) can help it stick better. I've used this to get the scale effect on the SeaQuest DSV model and have used it on WWII aircraft around engines and crew access hatches. Military modellers use "chalk mud" a lot for weathering vehicles.

[jpolacchi]

I am curious,do you have a good "photo" to see the end results of your pastel applications?I just had thought of doing it that way,but never did.Just applied pastels in the usual manner.Never thought of "white glue",but excellent idea.Rubbing alcohol would dry faster I think and I don't think it would affect paint jobs and top coats.

[Kylwell]

Mixing ground pastels with water, and a little surfactant, is what's known as a 'sludge wash'. Great for getting dirty and will also demonstrate the abrasive qualities of re-ground pastels.

Very finely ground pastels are often used as water streaks, laying down a thin filter then gently dragging a damp brush though the dried pigment. The difficult part is making consistently straight lines.

[Lt. Z0mBe]

I had thought of doing something similar not knowing if anyone had done it already or tried it?I was thinking of just mixing some pastel powder with water(or rubbing alcohol),applying them accordingly (as a wash)and allowing them to dry,then maybe rubbing them with a Q-TIP to make it streak,or to rub it to simulate a superficial "rusting" and/or oxidation look, or to just "leave it as is" depending on the effect one it aiming for.

Pasteks work great that way. I would caution you against alcohol, however. If you're using an acrylic flatcoat (most are nowadays), you'll run the risk of the alcohol etching or possibly frosting the flatcoat. Use the water - distilled is best.

Kenny

[seam-filler]

Mixing ground pastels with water, and a little surfactant, is what's known as a 'sludge wash'. Great for getting dirty and will also demonstrate the abrasive qualities of re-ground pastels.

Very finely ground pastels are often used as water streaks, laying down a thin filter then gently dragging a damp brush though the dried pigment. The difficult part is making consistently straight lines.

A good surfactant is dishwasher rinse-aid - it works well with acrylic paints as a thinner for airbrushing too. We're now getting unperfumed/uncolored rinse-aid in the UK so you're model doesn't end up smelling of lemons or mountain-fresh pastures!