Is it just me or do acrylics not cover nearly as well?

MillenniumFalsehood · Post by **MillenniumFalsehood** » Sun May 03, 2015 1:59 pm

I've been painting on my Enterprise model for nearly an hour with Tamiya acrylics, and only have the saucer covered. And I wouldn't even say covered... it's more like, "Well, I have paint on it... it's blotchy and uneven, but at least it has paint on." If I had been painting with enamels and lacquers, it would not only be done by now, but it would be way more even, too. And it's not because it's too thin. I've taken down the ratio of how much alcohol I mix with the paint to the point where it's barely enough to keep it flowing through my airbrush, and it not only doesn't cover well, it also spatters and hits the model with gobs of paint that I have to stop and wipe off. This is my first time using acrylics with an airbrush, and it might be my last.

Is there some hidden secret to painting with acrylics that I'm missing? Or do they really suck this much compared to enamels and lacquers?

geck · Post by **geck** » Sun May 03, 2015 4:48 pm

Sounds like the paint may be drying too quickly before hitting the model and this is a problem with acrylics. I always use Tamiya's thinner with their paint. There are built in paint retarders that help with the issues you describe, plus there may be some other chemicals that just help the paint to go on smoother. You could try some commercial acrylic retarder as well, but I've never tried it. I've been moving away from using Tamiya paint for basecoats though. The paint...while good and resilient has a very limited color range and the colors are dark.

For acrylics I use Testor's Acryl for a lot of my paint jobs (with their thinners). Better color selection and the paint is VERY thin and covers beautifully. They get a lot of flak from people, but the secret to using them is to ALWAYS use a primer under their paint. I've never had any issues afterward.

I've also begun using Vallejo Model Air...good stuff. This paint forms a resin like coat that is smooth and durable and easy to despense. I'll be using more of it in the future.

Max Nex · Post by **Max Nex** » Sun May 03, 2015 6:08 pm

if its spitting and sputtering then there is definitely a problem.
not sure what is is.
I've used Polly S , Testors Acryl and Tamiya's thinner with Tamiya paint , all with good results.
I've found that Tamiya's flat paint needs a 50/50 mix of paint and thinner and then stir the ever livin fekk out of it before loading the airbrush.

no not use alcohol--it evaporates too fast.

gsb5w · Post by **gsb5w** » Sun May 03, 2015 7:06 pm

I pretty much only spray Tamiya and testors acrylics without the problems you describe. What size is your needle?

irishtrek · Post by **irishtrek** » Sun May 03, 2015 11:21 pm

Like Mad Max said, do NOT use alcohol. I've used MM and Tamiya both and if either one need thinning I use tap water.

MillenniumFalsehood · Mon May 04, 2015 12:32 am

Tap water will screw with the chemical bonds holding the paint to the model. Alcohol is a far better choice. Also, the paint wasn't evaporating before it hit the model; it just lacked the opacity that enamels have. And I already knew why it sputtered: the ratio of alcohol to paint was too low.

Really guys, I did my research, and I have no questions about how much or what kind of solvent to use. What I have a problem with is the opacity. That's it. It takes far too much paint to do what enamels can do.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Mon May 04, 2015 11:49 am

Or just use Tamiya's thinner. Broad surfaces are always a PITA to cover evenly . Which is why HVLP guns were made but they'e usually overkill on a model. But back to airbrushes. Like a spray can lots of thin coats & check your pressures. I find when working big I up the pressure considerably.

gsb5w · Post by **gsb5w** » Mon May 04, 2015 4:54 pm

You most likely are experiencing tip dry. The acrylics are notorious for that
I will always keep some thinner on a napkin and wipe the tip during pauses or when I feel I might be getting tip dry. Other than that, you are the first person that I've ever heard of having problem with opacity with Tamiya. And I agree with you about water, its terrible for thinning paint for airbrushing, fine for using a detail brush but not airbrushing, too much surface tension unless you have some other medium to go along with it. I speak from experience with that one. I can't understand how some folks say they will thin the airbrush paint with water with no problems. I must have bad water or something.

irishtrek · Post by **irishtrek** » Mon May 04, 2015 11:18 pm

I've had no problems with tap water being used to thin acrylic paint and then run the paint through my airbrush with 1 exception, acrylic paint from a craft store, I keep getting too much water in the paint.

Mark Yungblut · Post by **Mark Yungblut** » Tue May 05, 2015 11:06 am

Okay couple of things.

First is did you use a light colored or white primer as your base layer? If not it could take a lot of your color to get an even full coverage coat.

Second- What Kywell said. When I have a large job or a job that will require painting a lot of parts with the same color go with a good single action AB designed for large coverage. My personal choice is a Paasche model H because it breaks down to just two pieces for cleaning and I can get a 3 oz. bottle for paint.

Last is your color perhaps a gloss white? Some gloss colors can run much more towards the transparent/ translucent side than flats.

I am also with the others make sure you are using Tamiya thinner with their paints when you thin for airbrush use.

Cheers,

Mark

MillenniumFalsehood · Post by **MillenniumFalsehood** » Sat May 09, 2015 1:02 am

It was black primer for light-blocking.

I was painting with XF-12 IJN Gray. I used alcohol to thin it.

tonyG2 · Post by **tonyG2** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:17 am

Although I get decent results (usually) from acrylics, I still have a deep distrust of acrylic as a medium and prefer enamels even though acrylics make for an easier clean up.

I prefer Tamiya brand but also use Hannants own brand colours for specific FS colour matches. Both work best with Tamiya thinners in my experiance. Also use Games Workshop paints which have excellent coverage but of course are GW model specific and so matching to real world schemes can be a problem.

Del · Post by **Del** » Sat May 09, 2015 11:05 am

MillenniumFalsehood wrote:It was black primer for light-blocking.

I was painting with XF-12 IJN Gray. I used alcohol to thin it.

Like Mark Yungblut said, a light primer might have been better in this case since JN Grey is fairly light in color. All I use is 91% Isopropyl Alcohol with Tamiya paint - always. Normally, I use about 1 drop alcohol per 2 drops paint when I paint light colors, but bump it to 50/50 for dark and metallics. I sometimes get clogging on the tip, but rarely. I also found that painting with flat paints covers better than glossy, and I try my best to conserve the flow of paint so it doesn't try to run, which can lead to thin spots on edges and pools on corners and crevices. I did find that the Tamiya flat paints tend to rub off when handled, so I spray a thin clear coat of Future to seal it in and protect it before my fat fingers need to grab ahold of it.

Mark Yungblut · Post by **Mark Yungblut** » Sat May 09, 2015 10:11 pm

Okay so what I would have done is put a nice light coat of white or very light grey primer over the black.

Next time consider putting your main light blocking coat on the inside of the model and then only spot blocking on the outside of the model. Besides, a good opaque light primer on the outside should also aid in light blocking.

Lord Darth Beavis · Post by **Lord Darth Beavis** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:58 pm

One tip I picked up from Das Phule, is to thin Tamiya with the Tamiya lacquer thinner. It thins wonderfully, and when it dries, it dries quickly, and HARD. Plus, the lacquer thinner slightly etches the plastic, which allows the paint to grip the plastic even more.

Just make sure you have PLENTY of ventilation!

Post by **TER-OR** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:02 pm

Another problem can be the way Tamiya Flat paints look. They have so much opaque agent in them it always seems like you've got a good coat with one pass. You don't. You will need a couple coats.

Recently I have been adding Future to Tamiya flat paints, just to give them some extra glossyness and medium. It seems to work well enough.

Opaque for light blocking can be difficult with any paint. Primers are perhaps your best bet, and this is also why a lot of people use silver paints, with metallic which can block better.

Feikki · Post by **Feikki** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:58 am

I thought it was common knowledge that acrylics have opaque characteristics compared to enamels. That's why you can do easily preshading when you paint with acryls but not with enamels.

Alvis 3.1 · Post by **Alvis 3.1** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:30 pm

Any time I switch to a new type of paint, it usually goes poorly. Getting used to acrylics takes a while, they just don't act the same as solvent based paints do.

I find thinning Tamiya with water loads the paint with too much moisture, and can have poor results. I always default to the brand thinners, just to be safe.

Alvis 3.1

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:27 pm

Alvis 3.1 wrote:Any time I switch to a new type of paint, it usually goes poorly. Getting used to acrylics takes a while, they just don't act the same as solvent based paints do.

I find thinning Tamiya with water loads the paint with too much moisture, and can have poor results. I always default to the brand thinners, just to be safe.

Alvis 3.1

I recently started using Vallejo's thinner with their paints instead of water and it's damned near like night & day. They spray so much nicer.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:11 am

Another thing you can do with Tamiya's less well covering paints (e.g. flat red and yellow) is to take the equivalent gloss color, Tamiya's flat base, and a tiny bit of flat white, and then mix your own semi-gloss color. They dry very well, rock hard and level quite well too compared to the stock flat paints.

TurkeyVolumeGuessingMan · Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:19 pm

I tend to prefer lacquer paints. Then again, I live in Japan, where using lacquers is more commonplace, whereas it seems that Western modelers have an aversion to lacquers.

What is with Tamiya gloss acrylics, anyway? My YouTube friend in Canada, RebelsAtCloudNine, was trying to use gloss acrylics on a car and apparently they do not dry as hard as the flat colors do. He airbrushed them with Tamiya lacquer thinner to help make the finish harden better, and he even only masked the paints with Tamiya masking tape. It would still ruin the gloss finish, it seems. Maybe polishing the surface would improve it, but I don't have this problem with Tamiya's lacquers.

I just wish Tamiya would release their lacquers in paint bottles and not just in rattle cans.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:19 am

TurkeyVolumeGuessingMan wrote:I tend to prefer lacquer paints. Then again, I live in Japan, where using lacquers is more commonplace, whereas it seems that Western modelers have an aversion to lacquers.

It's not an aversion; they're just much harder to obtain, especially in Europe, since most lacquers are forbidden here due to health risks. We can import them, but if customs notice they can confiscate them.

Tamiya spraycans are acrylic lacquers AFAIK, and Gunze Mr. Surfacer's formula was apparently changed to make it possible to sell them in Europe.

What is with Tamiya gloss acrylics, anyway? My YouTube friend in Canada, RebelsAtCloudNine, was trying to use gloss acrylics on a car and apparently they do not dry as hard as the flat colors do. He airbrushed them with Tamiya lacquer thinner to help make the finish harden better, and he even only masked the paints with Tamiya masking tape. It would still ruin the gloss finish, it seems. Maybe polishing the surface would improve it, but I don't have this problem with Tamiya's lacquers.

I just wish Tamiya would release their lacquers in paint bottles and not just in rattle cans.

Tamiya's gloss paints need to dry quite long before they are fully hardened (2-3 weeks). Their flat paint in bottles is really sensitive to damage - too much matting agent I think...

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:15 pm

Or you need to live high & dry like here in Colorado. Usually only take a few days for Tamiya gloss to fully harden here. Flats harden enough to take tape within an hour.