Using putty to fill gaps and seams
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Using putty to fill gaps and seams
Hello, I am trying to find the best, i.e. easiest ways to fit gaps and seams. This is my experience. Tried several and Aves seems to be the best so far.
I tried Vallejo, Perfect Plastic Putty, 3M Super Red, Aves.
Found the Vallejo and Perfect Plastic Putty (PPP) was easy to apply (esp from the Vallejo bottle with the thin tip). Found trying to move the Vallejo and PPP around the gap to cover it was easy enough. You can use an old brush to spread it out so it doesn't leave an edge. Problem came in after it dried, both putties shrank and the gap was still there. Trying to sand did not work at all. Both Vallejo and PPP crumbled and eventually all the material came off.
3M was more difficult to apply and from my understanding can damage plastic. I saw this firsthand because it left grooves/scratches in the plastic. Also, it ended up shrinking after it was dried and the gap was still there.
Aves ended up working the best. I used a clay shaper with a chisel tip to mush the Aves and spread it out so that it wouldn't leave an edge. A little water helps and makes it easier to spread.
I heard good things about Aves Fixit and was wanting to compare. Anyone used the Aves Fixit for seams/gap filling? How does it compare to Aves Apoxie?
I tried Vallejo, Perfect Plastic Putty, 3M Super Red, Aves.
Found the Vallejo and Perfect Plastic Putty (PPP) was easy to apply (esp from the Vallejo bottle with the thin tip). Found trying to move the Vallejo and PPP around the gap to cover it was easy enough. You can use an old brush to spread it out so it doesn't leave an edge. Problem came in after it dried, both putties shrank and the gap was still there. Trying to sand did not work at all. Both Vallejo and PPP crumbled and eventually all the material came off.
3M was more difficult to apply and from my understanding can damage plastic. I saw this firsthand because it left grooves/scratches in the plastic. Also, it ended up shrinking after it was dried and the gap was still there.
Aves ended up working the best. I used a clay shaper with a chisel tip to mush the Aves and spread it out so that it wouldn't leave an edge. A little water helps and makes it easier to spread.
I heard good things about Aves Fixit and was wanting to compare. Anyone used the Aves Fixit for seams/gap filling? How does it compare to Aves Apoxie?
Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
Depending on how big a gap to be filled some times I'll glue scrap plastic into the gap and then putty.
Besides don't all putties shrink??
Something else I do is after the putty has dried and been sanded I'll brush some paint on the area which I puttied to see if there are any small gaps.
Besides don't all putties shrink??
Something else I do is after the putty has dried and been sanded I'll brush some paint on the area which I puttied to see if there are any small gaps.
Normal?? What is normal??
Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
Are you working on "styrene kits" or resin/mixed media?Aves will work on just about anything,but for styrene kits(I think) the best thing to do is to mix your own filler.Melt styrene chips/shavings in cement solvent into a thick putty and "add" a drop or just a light brushing on of solvent to "prime" the surface to be filled,then apply melted styrene putty as you would any other body filler.After it "FULLY" cures,sand with medium and fine grits.Should be good to go.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
I wrote this some time ago, but it's still applicable:
The best way to avoid large gaps is to carefully test fit parts before assembly. But if you have a very large gap in spite of your best efforts, it's best to try to fill it with styrene plastic rod/strip and liquid cement, allowing it to dry thoroughly before applying any putty. This technique is handy for wing-to-fuselage gaps.
For filling large gaps, I'd suggest Milliput, which is an epoxy filler that comes in two parts that have to be mixed thoroughly before applying, and can be smoothed with a wet finger/cotton swab/sculpting tool, or Aves Apoxie, a similar product which comes in a variety of colors. Some of the auto body glazing putties, such as 3M Acryl Spot Putty, make good model putties; these are lacquer based and can be applied (sparingly) with a brush dampened in lacquer thinner. I'd recommend Spies Hecker Permacron Fine Putty.
Another useful filler from the auto body repair sector is Evercoat/Eurosoft, also a two-part putty which requires the addition of a catalyst to harden it. A nice thing about it is that before it sets, it gets rubbery, which makes it easy to carve away any excess with your modeling knife, but once cured, it sands and takes paint like styrene plastic. It's available at auto body repair supply outlets.
Tamiya makes some body putties which are said to be quite good as well, although I've not tried them. A relatively new product is Perfect Plastic Putty, a one-part putty which can be smoothed with water, but it is water soluble after it dries so cannot be wet sanded. However, it can be smoothed after application with a damp cotton swab. Many modelers like to use CA glue as a gap-filler and have had success. But it must be sanded immediately after it initially sets up. I've never had much success with it myself.
You can also make your own putty by dissolving sprue in liquid cement or MEK. What's nice about this is that you can control how thin or thick you want your "plastic plastic" to be, you have a variety of colors of sprue to choose from, and once it's set and sanded it takes paint just like styrene plastic, because it is styrene plastic!
Mr. Surfacer comes in three "flavors": 500, 1000, and 1200, in order from coarse to fine. They are intended more as primers/surfacers for filling small imperfections prior to painting, not as a general gap filler. See here for a good primer (pun intended) on Mr. Surfacer:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/Surfacer.html
There's also Mr. Dissolved Putty, which is an even thicker liquid putty, but again, it's not intended for filling large gaps. It can be brushed on, however, which makes it really useful.
Typewriter correction fluid ("white-out") can also be used to fill fine cracks. Brush it on, liet it dry, sand, and paint.
Putty, regardless of type or brand, should be used sparingly. The lacquer-based putties can melt through plastic components if applied too generously. You can place masking tape on either side of the gap before applying putty. Once the putty is cured, sand it until you can remove the tape, then sand it flush with the surface. Lacquer-based putties should also be given plenty of time to allow the solvents to evaporate. My rule of thumb is: If I can no longer smell the putty, then it's safe to begin sanding.
I'd suggest getting an old kit and a supply of different model putties and body fillers and experiment. Keep notes. You'll soon find a combination of putty and technique that works well for you. Good luck!
The best way to avoid large gaps is to carefully test fit parts before assembly. But if you have a very large gap in spite of your best efforts, it's best to try to fill it with styrene plastic rod/strip and liquid cement, allowing it to dry thoroughly before applying any putty. This technique is handy for wing-to-fuselage gaps.
For filling large gaps, I'd suggest Milliput, which is an epoxy filler that comes in two parts that have to be mixed thoroughly before applying, and can be smoothed with a wet finger/cotton swab/sculpting tool, or Aves Apoxie, a similar product which comes in a variety of colors. Some of the auto body glazing putties, such as 3M Acryl Spot Putty, make good model putties; these are lacquer based and can be applied (sparingly) with a brush dampened in lacquer thinner. I'd recommend Spies Hecker Permacron Fine Putty.
Another useful filler from the auto body repair sector is Evercoat/Eurosoft, also a two-part putty which requires the addition of a catalyst to harden it. A nice thing about it is that before it sets, it gets rubbery, which makes it easy to carve away any excess with your modeling knife, but once cured, it sands and takes paint like styrene plastic. It's available at auto body repair supply outlets.
Tamiya makes some body putties which are said to be quite good as well, although I've not tried them. A relatively new product is Perfect Plastic Putty, a one-part putty which can be smoothed with water, but it is water soluble after it dries so cannot be wet sanded. However, it can be smoothed after application with a damp cotton swab. Many modelers like to use CA glue as a gap-filler and have had success. But it must be sanded immediately after it initially sets up. I've never had much success with it myself.
You can also make your own putty by dissolving sprue in liquid cement or MEK. What's nice about this is that you can control how thin or thick you want your "plastic plastic" to be, you have a variety of colors of sprue to choose from, and once it's set and sanded it takes paint just like styrene plastic, because it is styrene plastic!
Mr. Surfacer comes in three "flavors": 500, 1000, and 1200, in order from coarse to fine. They are intended more as primers/surfacers for filling small imperfections prior to painting, not as a general gap filler. See here for a good primer (pun intended) on Mr. Surfacer:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/Surfacer.html
There's also Mr. Dissolved Putty, which is an even thicker liquid putty, but again, it's not intended for filling large gaps. It can be brushed on, however, which makes it really useful.
Typewriter correction fluid ("white-out") can also be used to fill fine cracks. Brush it on, liet it dry, sand, and paint.
Putty, regardless of type or brand, should be used sparingly. The lacquer-based putties can melt through plastic components if applied too generously. You can place masking tape on either side of the gap before applying putty. Once the putty is cured, sand it until you can remove the tape, then sand it flush with the surface. Lacquer-based putties should also be given plenty of time to allow the solvents to evaporate. My rule of thumb is: If I can no longer smell the putty, then it's safe to begin sanding.
I'd suggest getting an old kit and a supply of different model putties and body fillers and experiment. Keep notes. You'll soon find a combination of putty and technique that works well for you. Good luck!
Michael McMurtrey
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
Or...(drum roll) maybe you said this already?I'd use the sprue pieces and grind them up in a cheap pencil sharpener into a small glass jar,add a drop of solvent,wait...add another drop of solvent(if needed) or more plastic.Then..."proceed" and after it cures file/sand flush.You can use ABS scrap also(which is good) because it is most often black,so you can see the results and adding styrene to it will soften t up a tad and make it "grey" obvioulsy.MEK will work on both ABS and styrene...it wont work on acrylic.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
I have found that white gorilla works great to fill gaps and small holes even holes you make when you are trying to show your ship,spacecraft ETC. has damage. Will show pictures as soon as I can.
Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
General rule of thumb: any one part, solvent based putty will shrink far more than 2-part epoxy types.
But as far as working with styrene, a solvent based putty will bond far better to the plastic.
But as far as working with styrene, a solvent based putty will bond far better to the plastic.
Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
My personal favorite is Super Glue. I dries as hard or harder than the plastic. I can sand it to a mirror finish and it can be scribed.
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I'm Batman.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
I have used alcohol to help sculpt and smooth Squadron putty into place which was handy for me as I'm a bit of a stone-age model builder . I would agree that it is best to minimize the size of a gap or seam mismatch by other means before resorting to putty (i.e. as mentioned in previous posts: using bits of scrap or thin plastic sheets to fill and sand as best to fit), leaving the putty to be more of a finishing touch.
Thanks for the notes on the automotive fillers. They've been recommended to me before as a more cost-wise option over dedicated hobby plastic fillers.
Thanks for the notes on the automotive fillers. They've been recommended to me before as a more cost-wise option over dedicated hobby plastic fillers.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
I use two different putties, both are rather obscure, local products, though.
For typical IP model work and on resin I use a nitrous compound putty called "Presto Finish", which is actually a fine putty intended for car body work, for the final finish before primer is applied. The stuff is a bit smelly, but it profoundly adheres to plastic (actually bonds with the surface) and resin, and it is easy to sand and manipuilate. It's a bit brittle for scribing when dry, though, but the hardness is very similar to plastic and resin. It shrinks slightly, and is rather intended for thin areas than filling wide gaps.
For the latter I have discovered an acrylic painter putty, found in a local DIY store. It is less dense than Presto, and originally intended to cover dents and notches on wooden doors or furniture. It is much softer than Presto, too, when dry you can actually carve it. It shrinks less than the NC putty, and I use it frequently for bigger gaps (up to 5mm) or in difficult areas where getting rid of excess material is not easy.
I have tried a lot of "official" model builder putties, but found so far none of them satisfying.
For typical IP model work and on resin I use a nitrous compound putty called "Presto Finish", which is actually a fine putty intended for car body work, for the final finish before primer is applied. The stuff is a bit smelly, but it profoundly adheres to plastic (actually bonds with the surface) and resin, and it is easy to sand and manipuilate. It's a bit brittle for scribing when dry, though, but the hardness is very similar to plastic and resin. It shrinks slightly, and is rather intended for thin areas than filling wide gaps.
For the latter I have discovered an acrylic painter putty, found in a local DIY store. It is less dense than Presto, and originally intended to cover dents and notches on wooden doors or furniture. It is much softer than Presto, too, when dry you can actually carve it. It shrinks less than the NC putty, and I use it frequently for bigger gaps (up to 5mm) or in difficult areas where getting rid of excess material is not easy.
I have tried a lot of "official" model builder putties, but found so far none of them satisfying.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
I tend to switch between using Bondo auto filler and liquified styrene. Often what I will do is stretch some sprue after heating it, then finding a section that's a hair bigger than the seam. I lay it down on the seam and brush on a liberal amount of very "hot" solvent, usually just plastic welder or sometimes a 50'50 mix of lacquer thinner and acetone. When the solvent has melted the sprue and the surface has turned matte, I gently press it with the tip of my fingernail into the seam and work it down until it's about the same level as the plastic parts. After that, I let it set overnight and then sand it the following morning. It produces a very nice finish if you are patient, and it also has the benefit of being the exact same hardness as the surrounding plastic, so no risk of it not sanding the same. The only reason I don't do it all the time is when I get in a hurry and just want to slop on something that'll do the job. Bondo is still one of the best choices for this, IMO. I'd get Aves, but if I am really in that much of a hurry I also don't really want to wait on shipping.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
As someone who can directly attest to what decades of chemical exposure can do to your lungs I shy away from solvent based putties. Aves is my putty of choice. It's about as hard as styrene, can be machined, polished, and scribed. Because of it's similar softness you have less of a chance of developing a ledge between areas of differing hardness. Ave's Fix-It is stronger and has a slight bit of give. I am not fond of the paste as it's seriously messy to work with. Sticks to everything and cleaning tools afterwards is a pain in the butt. The clay is great for sculpting as it stay in that magic zone of hard enough to handle but still soft enough to carve easily. They've got a few otehr makes that I have had the chance to play with, really need to order a sample pack from them.
The Vallejo & Perfect Plastic putties are both powered marble dust with a water soluble binder. If you know what gesso is, they're a stickier version of that. In my experience they have less grab and are not suitable for scribing. Like Aves, they have near zero shrinkage. Unlike Aves they're best applied in thin coats. Like Aves they're non-toxic unless you're doing a lot of heavy sanding.
If I need more strength in an area I'll use a rubber impregnated CA like Gorilla Super Glue, blue cap. You can find it almost anywhere and is easier to sand than regular CA. Avoid black rubber impregnated CA as the carbon black reduces the shelf life drastically.
The Vallejo & Perfect Plastic putties are both powered marble dust with a water soluble binder. If you know what gesso is, they're a stickier version of that. In my experience they have less grab and are not suitable for scribing. Like Aves, they have near zero shrinkage. Unlike Aves they're best applied in thin coats. Like Aves they're non-toxic unless you're doing a lot of heavy sanding.
If I need more strength in an area I'll use a rubber impregnated CA like Gorilla Super Glue, blue cap. You can find it almost anywhere and is easier to sand than regular CA. Avoid black rubber impregnated CA as the carbon black reduces the shelf life drastically.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
There is also gap filling CA and baking soda. The results are fairly hard and it can be used to build up as well as fill.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
Very true.
My only issue with that was some very, very odd outgassing if the CA/baking soda mix was exposed to much water. I used the mix to fill some gaps on a Warbird kit, and soon after I had to clean the parts of sanded debris, this weird yellowish stuff oozed from the treated areas and dried like badly mixed epoxy glue.
I'm sure I messed something up in the whole process, but I know it'll be awhile before I try that method again.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
Out of curiosity, since my expertise is fairly limited, what is wood putty? I've used it on a paper project where it works well. Of course there it only has to adhere to paper and itself, but it does sand and take paint. I've never heard it discussed in terms of plastic kits though. The only other non-hobby putty I've heard applied to plastic is plumber's putty and in that case it was to fill out curvy scratchbuilt hulls.
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Re: Using putty to fill gaps and seams
Here in the UK there are 2 types of wood putty - it may be different in the US.
The first is chemically very similar to solvent-based fillers like Squadron. They tend to be softer than the plastic fillers and will contract and expand more (to suit the way wood does).
The second is an acrylic-based type and won't attach plastic. I have used these for filling vinyl models because it not only appears to stick to vinyl well, but it is also more flexible when dry than most model fillers. I've never really found this useful in modelling because it usually shrinks quite a lot and the solvent is pretty hot for plastics.
Both types are often coloured to closely represent the wood you should be trying to fill. So when using for modelling, I would tend to use one intended for a light coloured wood such as bleached pine or beech.
The first is chemically very similar to solvent-based fillers like Squadron. They tend to be softer than the plastic fillers and will contract and expand more (to suit the way wood does).
The second is an acrylic-based type and won't attach plastic. I have used these for filling vinyl models because it not only appears to stick to vinyl well, but it is also more flexible when dry than most model fillers. I've never really found this useful in modelling because it usually shrinks quite a lot and the solvent is pretty hot for plastics.
Both types are often coloured to closely represent the wood you should be trying to fill. So when using for modelling, I would tend to use one intended for a light coloured wood such as bleached pine or beech.
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