Total reboot, choice of paints?

[Patrik]

Were you to start everything over again from scratch, what paints would you use?

I haven't held a paint brush for almost 20 years but now I have for the first time ever something that is starting to maybe look lika a workshop, or at least an honest build area. All my experince is with the Humbrol cans except for some utter failures with some water based paints in the early 90ies. I remember staying away from Tamiya paints for the cost but that is less of an issue today. I don't expect much from the 25 year old cans I still have so maybe this is an opportunity?

I have compiled a list of points, probably neither mutually exclusive nor collectively exhaustive, that I would like to consider

• Does not stink up the place

• Cleans easily from an airbrush even if left over night

• Not too exotic (both availability and chemical composition)

• Shelf life (opened)

• Amateur friendly

• Easily removable when mistakes are made, preferably withour danger to primer or filler

• Thougts on primers? Over styrene, resin? Metal?

• Top coats?

• Range of colours

What would you use?

[naoto]

[smirk] switch to papercraft.

some advantages of papercraft:
* you can avoid having to use smelly solvent-based adhesives with potentially toxic fumes
* many come pre-decorated, so you can often forgo painting -- so no worries about toxic fumes from paint
* you can often resize a model (with a few adjustments) to suit whatever scale you want (assuming "print-your-own" type and not pre-printed) -- can't easily do that with a plastic model kit or resin.
* (relatively) inexpensive
* there's a *LOT* of papercraft you can find on the Internet -- better yet, often the it's a FREE download!
* if the model of the "print-your-own" type, then you can simply print another one if you mess up

of course much of this presupposes that you've got:
* a computer
* a printer attached to computer
* software to view/print/edit files (upside -- often this software can be downloaded FREE)
* there may not be such a thing as transparent paper, but for stuff like windows or canopies, you could vacu-form (provided you've got the tooling) or simply use the plunge-molding technique (aka "heat-n-mash").

... and for anybody who says that it's impossible to make anything decent using paper:
https://www.lucaiaconistewart.com/

... and if you STILL insist that you DON'T like to use paper (e.g. "it's too flimsly," "it swells w/ moisture," etc.)... You could always use papercraft models as a pattern and use "more traditional" material such as sheet styrene. Another alternate material that you might consider -- thin aluminium sheet from soda or beer cans.
handy technique: wick in a bit of thin cyanoacrylate (aka "super glue") into to stiffen paper -- result can also be sanded like plastic

[Patrik]

[Polite expression of gratitude for taking the time to reply] There is a certain stash that says "No" to that, and is also in great part the cause of the initial question.

[southwestforests]

I've been using Tamiya acrylics since the mid 1980s for both model trains and plastic models. I have not used their newer enamels and lacquers or their paint markers. Have used their spray paint.
On the easy removal of the acrylic from both models and airbrushes, soak painted object in rubbing alcohol for, I dunno, maybe 15, 20, minutes, and the Tamiya acrylic will wash right off.

(oh! I think I remember acrylic plastics don't like alcohol. But styrene, ABS, metal, just fine. Don't know that I've ever tried it with resin parts)

They thin well for airbrushing. As for hairy brushing, there is a retarder available which makes them much, much, easier to apply that way.
Shelf life? Plenty, I've got usable bottles a decade old.
(and even older still usable bottles of Polly Scale and Ral Partha!)

I've added 3 layers Tamiya acrylics airbrushed in one day with no ill effects, undercoat, color coat, clear gloss.
As best I can tell, their clear gloss simply does not yellow like dullcote lacquer and even Future acrylic floor finish will after a number of years.

[Patrik]

I don't think I ever realized Tamiya had acrylics. I need to check them out. Thanks for the input.

[naoto]

the stuff in the bottles are acrylics, but you'll have to be careful about the spray stuff -- in particular stuff in the "PS" series, which are lacquers meant for use with polycarbonate (e.g. R/C model car bodies) which would generally be "too hot" (i.e. chemically active) for polystyrene.
https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/paints/bottles/
https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/paints/s ... -aircraft/
https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/paints/s ... carbonate/
https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/paints/s ... -plastics/

[Patrik]

I will keep that in mind. Thank you.

[gsb5w]

If I had to start over I guess it would be a mix of Vallejo and tamiya acrylics. I would buy their thinners and flow aid as well.
As far as to letting paint sit in the airbrush over night I don't know of any paint that would not dry up the insides of your airbrush.

[seam-filler]

Tamyia acrylics have been around since at least the very early 1980's. I've used them (though not exclusively) since. Though a somewhat limited range, they mix well, are easily thinned for both airbrush and hairy-stick. They clean up easily and don't attack airbrush O-rings.

Non-toxic fumes? They say they are non-toxic, but breathing in anything other than clean air goes with some risk! They aren't particularly stink, but then not many acrylics are.

As for the range of colours - there are enough (I believe that USA get the full range but we are not so lucky in Europe for some reason). One great thing about Tamiya is that they don't often delete a colour from their range, unlike most others.

Shelf life after opening - Properly sealed with cleaned screw-thread it is over a decade. Better still if you know you're putting a jar away for storage, an inner cap of cling-film (Saran wrap) will help. Even better, warm the jar of paint with the lid off (stand it in a bit of really hot water) and while it is hot, put the lid on and then run the sealed jar under a cold tap. This produces something of a vacuum & helps preserve the paint. Tamyia thinners added to old, thick paint will revive it.

Isopropyl alcohol or lighter fluid will remove it. The longer the paint has had to cure, the longer this will take.

As far as I know, acrylics will go on top of almost any primer. Personally, I use automotive primers (for those in the UK, it's Halfords) - they are good on styrene, ABS, resins, brass and white metal. For vinyl kits or those nasty, soft plastic PVC figures (like the Airfix 1/76 figures), I use Halfords plastic primer (it's meant for priming the plastic parts of cars which are often some sort of vinyl or polycarbonate), but any primer meant for Lexan or polycarbonates will do.

[Patrik]

Thanks.

I dont't intend to leave it uncleaned off course. (This is where I try not to think to much about that time I lended someone my airbrush as I was never using it anyway and it came back full of car primer...)

One other thing I thought of today, is it critical to have a moisture trap for the compressor when airbrushing acrylics? I am thinking it would be very little water?

[southwestforests]

One other thing I thought of today, is it critical to have a moisture trap for the compressor when airbrushing acrylics? I am thinking it would be very little water?

Consider it critical for any paint.
Remember, as the compressor compresses the air it also compresses any and all humidity in the air.
Even when you'd swear there is practically no humidity.
And it can and will lead to water drops coming through and making what looks a lot like bird splats in your nice new wet paint.

Somewhere early on in my airbrushing experience, decades ago, I saw something about using an in-line moisture trap in the airbrush hose and placing it toward the end the airbrush connects to; I think to allow what moisture is going to condense before reaching the brush plenty of time to do so.
I got an in-line moisture trap by Paasche and spliced it in to the Badger hose.
Did the trick.
And this was in Virginia Beach, Virginia, where humidity was plentiful.
Can't remember if airbrush was given to me before or after we moved from central Georgia to Virginia Beach.
Summers here in Missouri too can be quite humid at times.

[seam-filler]

Ditto on the moisture trap. I would even argue that it is more critical for lacquer or enamel paints - just think of how well oil and water mix! Water in an oil-based paint could completely destroy the finish and even ruin it to the point where it might not even cure properly. A mini in-line moisture trap will cost you less than $10 and it's one of the few things in airbrushing where brand really doesn't matter so I don't think you'll find that a Paasche or Iwata trap at $20 will work any better than a cheap, unbranded one.

If you have an air-tank, the moisture trap will not be working as hard because a lot of the water stays in the tank. Just remember to drain the tank at the end of the session.

[Patrik]

I have a 400V compressor with a 50 liter air tank in a different part af the basement, my plan is to put in a permanent air line from there to the build bench. A regulator (for fine tuning) and a moisture trap at the bench sounds like a plan.

[southwestforests]

That setup is 'Industrial Scale' compared to what I have; a little compressor about the size of a hiking boot and no tank at all!
But then, upper floor apartments generally tend to not have much basement space.

[seam-filler]

I have a 400V compressor with a 50 liter air tank in a different part af the basement, my plan is to put in a permanent air line from there to the build bench. A regulator (for fine tuning) and a moisture trap at the bench sounds like a plan.

A lot of regulators come with moisture traps anyway. You are better off having a trap closer to your airbrush (e.g. a mini-trap) - and it doesn't hurt to have more than one trap.

Ideally, you will want your regulator to be within easy reach of where you are spraying. This just makes it easier to fine-tune airflow while you are working.

I've not been airbrushing long - in fact I have to consider myself a bit of a tyro - and most of what I've done has been broad coverage rather than detail work. But I have already found out some basics that, if you get wrong, will prevent you from ever getting good results.

[Patrik]

The compressor is sized for minor work on my cars, or I would be looking at some bench model for this application. I have found a wall mounted regulator/trap combo that I will be looking at in the next few days.

[Patrik]

As per the "post your workbench" thread, it is done

I had to go through two stores to find the connectors I needed, It seems there are now two sizes of airline connector on airbrushes today? This one was 1/8'' but a cheaper one as well as my old ones are much smaller.

For the time being I will use a simple hose for air, I am not yet sure about the placement of neither bench nor regulator.

[Patrik]

But this was about the paint. It has been a while since I regularly frequented any hobby shop but I took a trip to have a look around. Where I lived 15 years ago there are (where) two shops, one dedicated hoppy shop and one that was more like a section of a larger toy shop. The former is still there and is where I found the airbrush cleaning jar and some paint. The latter was in the final stages of closing down the hobby section, only a shelf left with some leftover kits and paints at 50% off. Even most of the RC was gone. I picked out four paint bottles I liked and left them with a bunch of browns and about twenty purple. I offered my sympathies at the counter about the fate of the hobby section and the guy seemed really sad about it. He said it had been going on for a year and listen, If you get some more paints I give you 70%. So I picked up most of the rest leaving him with 19 purples.

I guess brown is now my base and training color?



Right between that place and where I live now is another city with two shops and the story there is remarkably similar. One of them is moving out of town to a place that is really off my beaten path. The other is of the same chain as the one that was closing its hobby section but it seems different some how. Here you can find Dragon 1/6 armor kits and obscure Tamiya kits that I have not ever seen on shelfs in 35 years, as well as really unheard of brands. Well stocked in various fictional subjetcs and Trumpeter 1/200 ships and 1/16 armor also. Really odd place, the rest of the store is mostly Lego and toddler stuff.

I hope I can get to do some painting trials later when the weekend chores are done. Thank you.

[naoto]

I do recall back in the day when drug stores (e.g. Thrifty's, Longs Drugs, CVS, etc.) in the USA used to have a hobby section where they carried model kits as well as supplies. The first few Guillows kits I ever had were bought at a drugstore. Also recall the time when you can find a few model kits over at the supermarket (I do distinctly recall seeing the 2001 Orion and Ragnarok kits from Aurora at a few supermarkets) in the aisle where they had toys.
I also remember when department stores also used to have a hobby section in their toys area. The most impressive hobby section in a department store I recall seeing was in Japan back in the early 1970s -- the hobby section was about the size of the toy section typically seen in department stores in the USA. The closest of that I'd seen in the USA was back in the 1980s when Pony Toy-Go-Round had had their shop at the Yaohan Centre in Little Tokyo district of downtown Los Angeles -- they were located in the upper section of the Yohan store (the upper level was where Yaohan operated a department store, while the first level was the Yaohan supermarket). Nowadays I can satisfy many of my hobby needs (at least for static model type) by popping over to Anime Jungle.

[southwestforests]

The first few Guillows kits I ever had were bought at a drugstore. Also recall the time when you can find a few model kits over at the supermarket

Ahh, I remember similar days in the 1960s and 70s. Buying Aurora's 1/48 tanks at the local hardware store. The K Mart in Macon, GA, getting what seemed an entire pallet of Comet's stick and tissue kits at beginning of summer.

Oh, and back to the Tamiya paint, while it can be thinned for airbrushing with water, alcohol, Windex, who knows what else, their own X-20A thinner is superb. Is sold in several sizes.

And keep at least some of the empty paint bottles: they clean easily with aforementioned solvents. Are also handy for other solvents such as the greyish bottle there which is used for thinners for cleaning small brushes used with those old classic Testors quarter floz enamels.

[seam-filler]

I had to go through two stores to find the connectors I needed, It seems there are now two sizes of airline connector on airbrushes today? This one was 1/8'' but a cheaper one as well as my old ones are much smaller.

For the time being I will use a simple hose for air, I am not yet sure about the placement of neither bench nor regulator.

There are generally two sizes of fittings for the majority of compressors, tanks and hoses... 1/8" BSP and 1/4" BSP (the size refers to the bore of the fitting NOT the thread size). Airbrushes themselves often have a smaller fitting (e.g. Badger amongst others) which is usually a 5mm (M5) thread.

As for your bench - just make sure the regulator isn't going to get covered in overspray!

[geck]

To answer your question...I've been finding myself leaning more and more towards lacquers these days. The paint is just superior to everything else and it sticks. I especially like the Tamiya rattle cans and soon the bottled lacquers will be available stateside.

Toxicity issues and smell aside...which can be mitigated...they are amazing.

For acrylics...Vallejo is probably my go to as they are so easy to use. Mission Models makes great paint as well, but their polyester system is more cumbersome to use. Had an entire 4oz bottle of poly go completely solid on me and had to throw it out recently.

[Patrik]

Thank you. I have already come to appreciate the less toxic clean up with the chosen acrylics and so far results are decent. They are also readily available not too far from here.

[southwestforests]

They are also readily available not too far from here.

That can be a quite large factor in the equation.