Paint Equivalents

[Mirrorgirl]

Hi folks, I'm sure that someone here will be able to answer my question, here goes...

A friend is building a USS Reliant (AMT Ertl)for me. There is a list of colors to paint the model included with the kit and my friend is wondering if there are Games Workshop or Citadel paint colors that are good matches that can be used as substitutes. He normally paints Warhammer figures.

The colors listed are as follows:

Flat Yellow FS-33538
Ducks Egg Blue FS-35625
Intermediate Blue FS-35164
Light Ghost Grey FS-36375
Flat Black FS- 37038


Any help would be much appreciated.

[MillenniumFalsehood]

The FS numbers are the key here. With them, you can match the paints to whatever Testors or Games Workshop color you want (FS stands for Federal Standard, so the color will be the same regardless of what brand he uses).

I'm totally unfamiliar with GW paint (I prefer Model Masters), but if he enters the FS number into this program:

http://www.paint4models.com/paintchart/ ... 0101b.html#

He should be able to find the color. Then all he has to do is compare it to the GW colors he has or the ones at the hobby store and get an equivalent paint. It doesn't have to be perfectly matched; he can go with what looks right and it'll turn out fine.

Now, he probably should switch to a brand that is designed for modeling, like Testors or Humbrol. GW paints are designed specifically for figure painting and brushes. With a model like the Reliant, he'll want to use model acrylics. Model Master has come out with a brand new line of acrylic paints which are durable and cover well, however not all colors are available in that line. Enamels are better paints overall, but they do require more involved cleanup and some harsh chemicals. It's his call on that, really.

Good luck to him nevertheless.

[Mirrorgirl]

Thanks MillenniumFalsehood, I'll check it out. Cheers

[Thraken-Sal]

Unfortunately MF, that wonderful conversion tool doesn't have Games Workshop paints on it.

[Arronax]

Unfortunately MF, that wonderful conversion tool doesn't have Games Workshop paints on it.

No, and that was the point of MF's post. Using GW paints for the Reliant kit is not a good idea. GW paints are best used with a brush and on smaller areas like figures. They are not based on military colors (Federal Standard).

If you must use GW paints to paint something like the Reliant, you can only use a close approximation achieved by holding a can/jar of equivalent enamel or acrylic against a jar of GW paint and eyeballing a match. You should also check if it can be airbushed since large flat areas like the Reliant saucer are hard to brush paint without getting visible brush marks.

Unfortunately, Flat Yellow, Duck Egg Blue and Light Ghost Grey are not available in Testors spray cans.

[irishtrek]

www.testors.com and click on model master paints.

[Green Dragon]

Games Workshops paints are on that paint chart listed under Citadel Paints. Just select the paint ranges you need in the box at the lower left of the page but as said above not many will be a match to Federal Standard.

Paul Harrison

[TER-OR]

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/helpdesk.asp#color_charts

good info here too

[TER-OR]

gonna make this one a sticky in Finishing. Congrats, Mirrorgirl!

[TER-OR]

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/pdf_web/CC073_rev03.pdf

Huge chart, from our buddies at Acrylicos Vallejo, including games paints.

[Mirrorgirl]

gonna make this one a sticky in Finishing. Congrats, Mirrorgirl!

Gee and it's only my first post


Thanks for the extra links, I am sure we will be able to come to some solution.

[rpauly]

Collected color references on the Three Rivers IPMS site...

[Scanam2006]

the ipms stockholm site is the definitive source for all color equivalents. it is comprehensive and updated all the time

[duck]

iModelkit at the App Store for those that use smart phones and or iPads is Los very useful for cross referencing paints.

[asalaw]

iModelkit at the App Store for those that use smart phones and or iPads is Los very useful for cross referencing paints.

Sadly that app no longer exists.

[duck]

Still exists.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 7934,d.cGE

[asalaw]

Still exists.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 7934,d.cGE

Wierd. Didn't turn up on my iPad 4 when I did an app store search. Thanks!

OK I've played with it some--very interesting way to test color mixes. Sure beats guessing with real paint.

[Glorfindel]

Is this link that MF posted working for you guys?
http://www.paint4models.com/paintchart/ ... 0101b.html#
It goes to the site for me but I needed to download the conversion table because the online table does nothing when I click on it. Strange.

[Zubie]

Is this link that MF posted working for you guys?
http://www.paint4models.com/paintchart/ ... 0101b.html#
It goes to the site for me but I needed to download the conversion table because the online table does nothing when I click on it. Strange.

The link above no longer seems to work, but the site is still there. Just go to the root page: http://www.paint4models.com

In addition, I recommend the following web site to cross link shades, particularly if you are starting from an FS reference without a direct reference to a brand name paint number.

https://www.encycolorpedia.com

The easiest way to use it is by inserting the hexadecimal RGB code into the search function. This value can be retrieved from other web paint ref schemes or from a color picking function from graphics software such as paintshop or gimp.

Ex: TOS Enterprise Grey #969d97: http://encycolorpedia.com/969d97

The search term will also accept direct paint references so for instance FS 33613 (radome tan) by entering "Federal Standard 33613" into the search term, or say "Tamiya XF15" for Tamiya radome tan. This type of search can be trickier as mismatch between the way the info is stored on its database will easily fail to find the color (e.g. FS 33613 or Tamiya XF-15 fails).

FS 33614 : http://encycolorpedia.com/search?q=fede ... dard+33613
Tamiya xf15: http://encycolorpedia.com/search?q=tamiya+xf15

It will also allow named color search. Again, getting the name right is important but less critical than a direct brand reference. This last point is interesting in that it can show you a considerable range in the interpretation of a named color, for instance search for "olive drab" or "sand" yields quite a range.
Olive Drab: http://encycolorpedia.com/search?q=olive+drab
Sand: http://encycolorpedia.com/search?q=sand

Once a color is found (search only yields a link), the actual color's page has a wealth of information such as LAB references and CMYK references. It will also show you a range of similar colors for evaluating close matches (lighter vs. darker, more vs less saturated, etc). This may be handy if you are trying to match by color scaling tips or aesthetics rather than exact historical references or shooting model references.

A very extensive chart will list color matches by closeness (a delta error reference in percent), each linked to its own reference page. The chart covers a wide range of references and is not specific to model colors, but it does cover Tamiya, Humbrol, Revell, Model Masters, Vallejo and Testors. It also references some popular colors for house paints, which while not model paints, it will help you find a paint chip at your local hardware shop for a physical reference (remember, what you see on your screen is "what you see on your screen" and not the actual color)*. There are also Pantone references (Pantone/PMS) listed.

You might find this helpful in conjunction with the paint database listed first to cross link to some of the paint brands not listed at Encycolorpedia. As an additional link (for the record on a sticky), this info was originally posted on one of those perennial "What color is the Enterprise" threads and there I listed another site that allowed extensive color research based on LAB, RGB, or CMYK information, EasyRGB: http://www.easyrgb.com/

It was handy for translating LAB information (posted at the Smithsonian) into an RGB value I could look up.

*NOTE: When using RGB values from a color picker one needs to note that the color on a photograph (scanned, uploaded, or digitally imaged) will in all likelyhood NOT be the actual color on the surface due film bias, filtering, lighting, image capture software, etc. I mentioned this as in another thread there was mention of a currently dead site that supported this feature (scalemodeldb.com). On the whole this is of limited value, unless you are looking for something that matches what the subject looks like in a photograph or screen shot, which is the case for a lot of SF/F subjects ("what it looks like on the screen" as opposed to a shooting model which can look very different).

[battlestar62]

thanks for all the hard work its is very helpful. maybe my painting will improve. it can't get much worse

[publiusr]

Now this is a real breakthrough:
https://techxplore.com/news/2021-05-zap-patterns.html

I envision models printed with patterns and decals....

Hit a refit model enterprise with a laser, and the spot reddens, then blackens as if from a phaser strike.

More advanced versions may make the whole surface of a model object into a screen.

[publiusr]

Robot that paints like human
https://techxplore.com/news/2022-06-gtg ... human.html

[Zubie]

Just found this document with regard to Floquil Equivalents
https://www.microscale.com/Floquil%20Color%20Chart.pdf

[jpolacchi]

Or you can be a dummy like me and buy a butt load of NOS Floquil RR, Military and Navy enamels. I think I have more than i can possibly use now.

[Kekker]

Unfortunately now we need a conversion chart for the Model Master paints...

[jpolacchi]

I bought a s^$@&t ton of NOS MM enamels also as well as the Floquil. All FS and various other military and WWII colors. Lots of them...

[Zubie]

I haven't done a full search yet, but while in the process of putting together a color match spreadsheet (which is turning out to be way way more time consuming than I thought) I found that scalemates.com has listings of paints with the respective RGB rating (which you can then go on to use for CMYK equivalents or just plain comparison with other referenced displays of colors). You just need to click on a particular color that has a visual reference to get details.
Example the page for Humbrol 30-12ml, AB0030 notes its RGB as #505d2a, relative appearance with varying background (light to dark), and references the equivalent branded Humbrol in 5ml and Heller 30 Vert Fonce

They don't have this level of detail for all paints listed, but they do have quite a few. It does not substitute for an equivalence chart, but it does help to the extent as it can give you a visual sense of what these paints look like, at least relative to each other once you find them. Also with the RGB you can use that as input to for Encycolorpedia to get a better sense of the physical nature of the color and possible similar paints (I just wish that Encycolorpedia had more hobby paint listings in their database).

Pages found so far
Humbrol
https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?q ... N[]=Paints
Mr. Color
https://www.scalemates.com/colors/mr-ho ... color--657
Tamiya
https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?f ... 2Paints%22
Revell
https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?f ... s&q=Revell*

You can also make use of filters to narrow the results pages down - like, just acrylics, or just enamels. This is handy as results can get quite long. Vallejo's went very far

[Bellerophon]

I had not noticed the paint pages at Scalemates, nor had I heard of Encycolorpedia, so thanks for posting that, Zubie.

Unfortunately, more information about color standards and hobby paints can make the task of color matching even more difficult for the modeler, as you clearly know if you're working on your own spreadsheet. The color charts on Cybermodeler are my go-to, but they leave a lot to be desired, too: there's no indication how close the matches are for the brands listed, and Humbrol is left out completely aside from an FS595b mix chart. What I would find really handy is a list of 24-bit RGB values for all color standards (FS595, ANA, RLM, RAL, BSC, etc.) and for all the opaque colors for each line of hobby paints, organized to let me find possible matches. But I can only begin to imagine the amount of work involved!

I was blissfully ignorant of the problems of color matching as a young modeler, until the '80s and I bought a copy of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Official-Monogra ... 0914144294
Suddenly I saw how wrong Humbrol's RLM 70 and 71 were that I had been using!

[John]

There's an app on the playstore called hobby color converter, which has bunches of brands that you can search on and will give you lots of equivalence. You can search on paint name, fs num, etc.

[publiusr]

Now it looks like we have a conductive paint
https://phys.org/news/2022-12-science-e ... e-art.html
https://www.bareconductive.com/products/electric-paint
https://www.lumilor.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH6oQbckCms