I am working on a project right now that will require me to simulate water. I am using a 16x20 plastic picture frame as a base, and I need to make the water about 3/4 inch deep, maybe a little more. I've been doing some reading about how to simulate water, and I thought I'd run what I'd found out by y'all to see if you had any suggestions.
What I'm looking for is something that I can make murky-looking (cloudy brown water is what I'm trying to reach) that will also hide the supports I had to lay across the plexiglass at the bottom of the frame to provide stability. I want the water to look as nasty as possible (think trash compactor water). At the same time, I have to transport this thing, so I don't want it to weigh a ton and run the risk of breaking the plastic frame when I pick it up.
A book on model railroading I found suggests silicone rubber (said to work well, but more expensive, and I'm not sure where to buy it) or casting resin (high stinky factor, and might be too heavy for my base). Another suggestion was gloss medium (not really sure what this is, and if it would work, considering I need depth to the water, not just painting something on the surface of a board).
I looked in the Micro-Mark catalog and found two things that might work, but I'm not sure how well they'd cover and if I could mix stuff in to make the water look cruddy. Realistic Water (#82620) sounds good, but at $16 for a 16 fluid ounce bottle, I'm thinking I'd need three or four bottles to do what I need. The Water Effects (#82621) sounds more like stuff for waterfalls and rapids. I'm looking for something for a pond.
I'm leaning toward the Realistic Water stuff right now. It apparently is self-leveling and dries within 24 hours, but how much surface will 16 fluid ounces cover? I'm tempted to put 16 ounces of water into a measuring cup, and then dump it into the frame to see how far it would go. I think I could mix something into each bottle to create the murky look I want, and then each layer would be darker, contributing to the overall effect. The downside is that I would need to order the stuff instead of being able to pick it up locally.
Can anybody give me some pointers or recommend something else I can use?
Thanks in advance for your help! 8)
Simulating water
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Lonewolf
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Simulating water
Captain Pike: Don't make me laugh.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
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Antenociti
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We do lots of stuff with water for our wargaming models - Realistic water is a good option but also consider Envirotex Lite. Water Effects is indeed for making white water, waterfalls, waves and such like (and is essentially just thick PVA glue).
Tips for using the water:
Only pour thin layers: about 1/16 to 1/8th of an inch. The drying time for these compounds increases dramatically with thickness, so if you want thick/deep water you do it in layers. Even with layers though progressive thicknesses increase setting time as each new layer "melts" partially the previously set layer.
So if your first layer sets in about 24 hours, pouring another layer will require about 36 hours to dry - time varies with environmental conditions btw so don’t take times as being exact.
There are a few ways to add colour, man of which can be used in combination.
The usual methodology is to paint the desired water colour onto the "ground" and then just pour the clear resin over the top of that. This works well if the painting is good, or at least it works well for "fantasy" rivers and ponds with crystal clear water.
To muddy your water you can add pretty much any liquid colorant, most often people use Inks - however BE WARNED - some inks and pigments will react with the clear resin over time. It is absolutely essential to test a bit of the resin with the ink in it right through until it is absolutely dry.
We once finished a very large highly detailed model with a river running through it which we added the water to right at the end of the build. The river looked a tad too clear so we added a small amount of blue ink to the last layer in order to give it a bit more colour-depth. The blue started as a very pale colouration, within 12 hours is had turned violet-blue and gone entirely opaque - one very ruined model.
Most “inks†as in ink-washes etc are usually fine, we’ve no idea why that one went horribly wrong but it made us aware that you really must test every time. Having said all that it’s happened to us once in two years so it wasn’t something exactly common.
Depending on the individual water being modelled you can colour just the final layer to give an appearance of colour throughout. Because layers will “melt†into each other you can also create colour gradients if you really want to – most often we’d do that for large waves, sea waves etc where a gradient would naturally be obvious – or perhaps where on river/stream flows into another – but that’s getting pretty dedicated and the effect isn’t always noticed tbh.
As to how much you need:
The resin dries and contracts substantially over time. Total dry time is really in days and the level of your water will decrease for anything up to a week. So if you want to fill an area of, say, 200mil you will need more than 200ml of the resin in its liquid state, probably anything up to twice as much, maybe more – it shrinks “that muchâ€.
It is entirely self levelling and will self-release most air bubbles. But it does help to pop any bubbles that rise to the surface – remember that if a layer sets and it has bubbles near the surface you can always “recover†it by adding another layer of water as this will “Melt†the surface of the layer under it (the one with the bubble in it).
In general the WS water releases bubbles very well.
It is pretty fluid though so make sure you have sealed all holes in your frame – Clear Devcon 5-minute epoxy is very good for sealing holes as it dries clear!
Bruce Hirst from www.hirstarts.com has some good tutorials on using Envirotex Lite for water on his website.
Personally I don’t really rate gloss or mediums or Klear (Future floor varnish in the USA) – they are all too “thin†at the end of the day and although they give a nice gloss to whatever is painted underneath them they really don’t convey “Depth†the way resin can.
Erm – that’s about it really – any Q’s just shout.
Tips for using the water:
Only pour thin layers: about 1/16 to 1/8th of an inch. The drying time for these compounds increases dramatically with thickness, so if you want thick/deep water you do it in layers. Even with layers though progressive thicknesses increase setting time as each new layer "melts" partially the previously set layer.
So if your first layer sets in about 24 hours, pouring another layer will require about 36 hours to dry - time varies with environmental conditions btw so don’t take times as being exact.
There are a few ways to add colour, man of which can be used in combination.
The usual methodology is to paint the desired water colour onto the "ground" and then just pour the clear resin over the top of that. This works well if the painting is good, or at least it works well for "fantasy" rivers and ponds with crystal clear water.
To muddy your water you can add pretty much any liquid colorant, most often people use Inks - however BE WARNED - some inks and pigments will react with the clear resin over time. It is absolutely essential to test a bit of the resin with the ink in it right through until it is absolutely dry.
We once finished a very large highly detailed model with a river running through it which we added the water to right at the end of the build. The river looked a tad too clear so we added a small amount of blue ink to the last layer in order to give it a bit more colour-depth. The blue started as a very pale colouration, within 12 hours is had turned violet-blue and gone entirely opaque - one very ruined model.
Most “inks†as in ink-washes etc are usually fine, we’ve no idea why that one went horribly wrong but it made us aware that you really must test every time. Having said all that it’s happened to us once in two years so it wasn’t something exactly common.
Depending on the individual water being modelled you can colour just the final layer to give an appearance of colour throughout. Because layers will “melt†into each other you can also create colour gradients if you really want to – most often we’d do that for large waves, sea waves etc where a gradient would naturally be obvious – or perhaps where on river/stream flows into another – but that’s getting pretty dedicated and the effect isn’t always noticed tbh.
As to how much you need:
The resin dries and contracts substantially over time. Total dry time is really in days and the level of your water will decrease for anything up to a week. So if you want to fill an area of, say, 200mil you will need more than 200ml of the resin in its liquid state, probably anything up to twice as much, maybe more – it shrinks “that muchâ€.
It is entirely self levelling and will self-release most air bubbles. But it does help to pop any bubbles that rise to the surface – remember that if a layer sets and it has bubbles near the surface you can always “recover†it by adding another layer of water as this will “Melt†the surface of the layer under it (the one with the bubble in it).
In general the WS water releases bubbles very well.
It is pretty fluid though so make sure you have sealed all holes in your frame – Clear Devcon 5-minute epoxy is very good for sealing holes as it dries clear!
Bruce Hirst from www.hirstarts.com has some good tutorials on using Envirotex Lite for water on his website.
Personally I don’t really rate gloss or mediums or Klear (Future floor varnish in the USA) – they are all too “thin†at the end of the day and although they give a nice gloss to whatever is painted underneath them they really don’t convey “Depth†the way resin can.
Erm – that’s about it really – any Q’s just shout.
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Antenociti
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This page has images of the water that went horribly wrong - we managed to scrape off most of the offending gunk but it still coloured the underneath somewhat luridly as you can see. http://www.barrule.com/Workshop/gallery ... Bridge.htm
Still it was just sellable at the end of the day but a hard lesson considering the time invested in the model.
This image gives an idea of how the colour can bleed through - the river was done in 5 or 6 layers with the 6th one being the one that went wrong and which was scraped off - but you can see from the cross section how the surface has soaked up some of the colour anyway.
It will also give you an idea of shrinkage - just look at the "high water" mark of the resin on the banks - that was the original volume - level with the top of the resin mark on the bank.
http://www.barrule.com/Workshop/WIP/for ... all/31.jpg
Still it was just sellable at the end of the day but a hard lesson considering the time invested in the model.
This image gives an idea of how the colour can bleed through - the river was done in 5 or 6 layers with the 6th one being the one that went wrong and which was scraped off - but you can see from the cross section how the surface has soaked up some of the colour anyway.
It will also give you an idea of shrinkage - just look at the "high water" mark of the resin on the banks - that was the original volume - level with the top of the resin mark on the bank.
http://www.barrule.com/Workshop/WIP/for ... all/31.jpg
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Lonewolf
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Thanks for the information. I will look into the resin option, but I'm thinking I might want something a little less shrinkable. This is a relatively short-lifespan project, and I don't want to dump a huge amount of money into it.
I'm thinking that I might look into using 1/8 or 1/4 inch plexiglass with styrene supports under it to simulate the depth that I need. After I install the plexiglass, I think I can use acrylic gel to cover the surface, simulate ripples, and fill in any blank spots that might show up. This would make everything lighter, and would also make it possible to salvage individual portions later on. I can paint the bottom of the plexiglass, and also tint the acrylic gel to get the darker shades, as well as dry-brushing the surface for lighter stuff.
This is going to be a top-down viewed project, without a cross section, so I only need surface area, not sides.
Thoughts?
I'm thinking that I might look into using 1/8 or 1/4 inch plexiglass with styrene supports under it to simulate the depth that I need. After I install the plexiglass, I think I can use acrylic gel to cover the surface, simulate ripples, and fill in any blank spots that might show up. This would make everything lighter, and would also make it possible to salvage individual portions later on. I can paint the bottom of the plexiglass, and also tint the acrylic gel to get the darker shades, as well as dry-brushing the surface for lighter stuff.
This is going to be a top-down viewed project, without a cross section, so I only need surface area, not sides.
Thoughts?
Captain Pike: Don't make me laugh.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
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Antenociti
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Yup that will work fine.
You can buy commercial "ripple sheets" (irregularly rippled or disturbed surface pattern clear sheets) from most major railway suppliers if you want to save some time - but making waves and ripples from either clear epoxy, PVA or WS "Water Effects" is relatively painless and just needs a touch of dry-brushing to bring them out (see our rapids on this image for an example http://www.barrule.com/Workshop/images/ ... /tfosr.jpg)
You can also make very convincing sea or wind-blown ponds/lake surfaces using plaster (or resin) and aluminium foil - i'll dig up a link to that style when i get some time later, it looks suprisingly good and is a cheap option, albeit a heavy one.
Absolutely nothing wrong with you plan though.
You can buy commercial "ripple sheets" (irregularly rippled or disturbed surface pattern clear sheets) from most major railway suppliers if you want to save some time - but making waves and ripples from either clear epoxy, PVA or WS "Water Effects" is relatively painless and just needs a touch of dry-brushing to bring them out (see our rapids on this image for an example http://www.barrule.com/Workshop/images/ ... /tfosr.jpg)
You can also make very convincing sea or wind-blown ponds/lake surfaces using plaster (or resin) and aluminium foil - i'll dig up a link to that style when i get some time later, it looks suprisingly good and is a cheap option, albeit a heavy one.
Absolutely nothing wrong with you plan though.
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Chacal
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2 questions:
1 Why does it have to be 3/4" deep?
2 How short a lifespan? A week? A day? A few hours?
1 Why does it have to be 3/4" deep?
2 How short a lifespan? A week? A day? A few hours?
Sheer elegance in its simplicity.
Political unrest in dictatorships is rather like a round of rock-paper-scissors: The oposition goes on denouncing the regime on the papers, the regime censors the papers, rock-throwing ensues.
Political unrest in dictatorships is rather like a round of rock-paper-scissors: The oposition goes on denouncing the regime on the papers, the regime censors the papers, rock-throwing ensues.
Rich
Look in the gallery and see my Sky One mini dio, or see this link:
http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery9/jm_skyone.htm
Crash course on modleing water.
Use celluclay.
Mix celluclau and water in in some sort of tub (i use those pplastic shoe boxes) until it looks like oatmeal,
Start scculpting it ont o your base using whatever tools you need, plastic spoons work well but so do your hands. the stuff sets in 12 hours so you have time to work it.
Once it dries, primer it with several coats.
Then paint water type colors and drybrush white on any wave you hav made. I use Apple Barrel or Lquitex acrylics, but you could use any paint you like. Noramlyy blues and greens but it sounds like for your project you need browns rust and black.
Then the secret ingredient shoot 4 or five coats of future for that wet look.
THis may not be the best method for modeling water but it's realtively quick and inexpensive and I like the results I get using it.
Look in the gallery and see my Sky One mini dio, or see this link:
http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery9/jm_skyone.htm
Crash course on modleing water.
Use celluclay.
Mix celluclau and water in in some sort of tub (i use those pplastic shoe boxes) until it looks like oatmeal,
Start scculpting it ont o your base using whatever tools you need, plastic spoons work well but so do your hands. the stuff sets in 12 hours so you have time to work it.
Once it dries, primer it with several coats.
Then paint water type colors and drybrush white on any wave you hav made. I use Apple Barrel or Lquitex acrylics, but you could use any paint you like. Noramlyy blues and greens but it sounds like for your project you need browns rust and black.
Then the secret ingredient shoot 4 or five coats of future for that wet look.
THis may not be the best method for modeling water but it's realtively quick and inexpensive and I like the results I get using it.
"The" Bluesman formerly known as The Bluesman
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kosherbacon
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bluesman,
great looking model i think that the water looks great, which brings me to my next question, where would you get that stuff because i have a boat model just waiting for a base of water and i think that celluclay would work great. thanks
ps. i do not mean to hijack the thread sorry!
great looking model i think that the water looks great, which brings me to my next question, where would you get that stuff because i have a boat model just waiting for a base of water and i think that celluclay would work great. thanks
ps. i do not mean to hijack the thread sorry!
"It matters if you just don't give up"
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~Stephen Hawking
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Mr. Badwrench
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Re: Simulating water
You could do the same thing with rice, without all the mess. See how many cups of rice it takes to fill the void.Lonewolf wrote:...I'm tempted to put 16 ounces of water into a measuring cup, and then dump it into the frame to see how far it would go.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.
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Lonewolf
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Justin:
Ok . . . I'll admit it. This is for part of my WonderFest entry, which is why weight and ability to transport without breaking are an issue. This has to make it from Michigan to Kentucky in one piece, not counting the stuff that's going to go on the base itself.
What would this weigh if I used your method? As I mentioned above, I'm using a 16 x 20 plastic photo frame that has 1/8 inch plexiglass on the bottom. If this is going to add a lot of weight, it might not be an option. To get it to fit the entry criteria, I'm going to have to probably shorten the interior space to 14 x 18, but at a depth about about an inch to an inch and a half, I'm looking at between 250 and 400 cubic inches that I'm going to have to fill.
Ok . . . I'll admit it. This is for part of my WonderFest entry, which is why weight and ability to transport without breaking are an issue. This has to make it from Michigan to Kentucky in one piece, not counting the stuff that's going to go on the base itself.
What would this weigh if I used your method? As I mentioned above, I'm using a 16 x 20 plastic photo frame that has 1/8 inch plexiglass on the bottom. If this is going to add a lot of weight, it might not be an option. To get it to fit the entry criteria, I'm going to have to probably shorten the interior space to 14 x 18, but at a depth about about an inch to an inch and a half, I'm looking at between 250 and 400 cubic inches that I'm going to have to fill.
Captain Pike: Don't make me laugh.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
Rich
Wieght shouldn't be an issue if you used the celluclay, even on the dimensions you mentioned. You don;t need to fill the base with material, you apply it to the surface of wht ever your base is.
My Sky One was doen by simpy applying the material on top of a wood base. You don't have to lay it on very thick at all.
You could get a piece of foam cut down to fit the frame and do the water effects on top of that.
Wieght shouldn't be an issue if you used the celluclay, even on the dimensions you mentioned. You don;t need to fill the base with material, you apply it to the surface of wht ever your base is.
My Sky One was doen by simpy applying the material on top of a wood base. You don't have to lay it on very thick at all.
You could get a piece of foam cut down to fit the frame and do the water effects on top of that.
"The" Bluesman formerly known as The Bluesman
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Lonewolf
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Part of what will be in the water IS foam, so foam on foam isn't really an attractive thought.
I'm thinking I'm gonna go the route of plexiglass with gel over it.
As to why it has to be 3/4 or deeper, one major component will be "floating" and I need to simulate part of that under water. In addition, there will be several smaller parts that are semi-submerged, so you'll see part of them just under the surface.
I'm thinking I'm gonna go the route of plexiglass with gel over it.
As to why it has to be 3/4 or deeper, one major component will be "floating" and I need to simulate part of that under water. In addition, there will be several smaller parts that are semi-submerged, so you'll see part of them just under the surface.
Captain Pike: Don't make me laugh.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
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Lonewolf
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- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:29 am
- Location: In a cloud of alcohol-thinned airbrushed acrylic paint!
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And I'm not, which is why I was looking for a no-brainer, easy-to-use method. Besides, I'm not sure how long after WonderFest I'm gonna leave this thing intact. 16x20 is rather large, considering how much space I have to display kits. Same reason I haven't built my Lunar Excelsior, PL Refits, or MPC Cygnus - not enough space.bluesman wrote:Oh, now he tells me.
Of cousre if you're gonna have parts you need to see under water go with the plexi. But if you're good, if you're really good, see, you should be able to do it with the celluclay, but you have to be REALY GOOD.
Captain Pike: Don't make me laugh.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
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kosherbacon
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Thanks bluesman, michaels does have it and that means that my boat will finaly have a base!! BTW here is a Link if anyone wants it http://www.michaels.com/art/online/disp ... Num=gc0026
"It matters if you just don't give up"
~Stephen Hawking
~Stephen Hawking
Lonewolf asked
Damn, the stuff was so clear!
Also, another product you may consider is a product called pheonseal (sp?) (you will find in the chalking section). Get the one that dries clear. This particular item will go on white and then dries clear.
What good this will do, well, it is a silcon product and while it is white, that will allow you to "see how to sculpt it to the shape you need" compared to the straight clear which would make it hard to see how to work it. I find that using it to make waves or water running off a boat is pretty easy with this stuff.
But like with all new ideas presented here, try it first on scrap before you committ it to you kit.
A friend of mine just used this method and I was impressed with how clear the water was. What it is is a two part product used to put a gloss finish on furniture (at Lowes it is called Gloss Coat). The guy who did the dio said that it generated little heat, which was a question for me for I had noticed that he had plastic grass blades right in the water. He also told me that he poured it not as thin as you would with Envirotech.Another suggestion was gloss medium (not really sure what this is, and if it would work, considering I need depth to the water, not just painting something on the surface of a board).
Damn, the stuff was so clear!
Also, another product you may consider is a product called pheonseal (sp?) (you will find in the chalking section). Get the one that dries clear. This particular item will go on white and then dries clear.
What good this will do, well, it is a silcon product and while it is white, that will allow you to "see how to sculpt it to the shape you need" compared to the straight clear which would make it hard to see how to work it. I find that using it to make waves or water running off a boat is pretty easy with this stuff.
But like with all new ideas presented here, try it first on scrap before you committ it to you kit.
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Lonewolf
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Clear water will work for me on later projects, but on this one I want cloudy, murky, dark, coffee-brown water. Like I said earlier, think of the water in the trash compactor in Episode IV. I want people to look at the water and go "Ugh!" because it's so nasty.
Captain Pike: Don't make me laugh.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
Commander Burnham: Fortunately for you, I was raised on Vulcan. We don't do funny.
Captain Pike: Ha! (ouch)
Commander Burnham: Maybe I should just shut up.
Math Problem: Sam has 100 model kits, Frank takes 10 model kits ... what does Sam have?
Answer: 100 model kits and a corpse.
-
Chacal
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Resin. Yep. Tint it (with dyes). Yep. And add some pigment.
The deepest layer should be more opaque (with more pigment – solid particles) AND more tinted (with a dye). Choose whatever color you need: blue, as in the ocean, dark (brown, or gray) as in a lake, muddy as in a plains river... then add less of it to each new layer, until you're left with just the clear (if you choose blue ocean or dark lake) or a bit of dye and pigment (muddy river), about 1mm thick in the surface. Roughen the surface af all but the topmost layer (120 of 180 grit sandpaper) after it sets (rock hard), so the next layer will adhere well AND blend better (in color) to the one underneath. It takes time. The more layers you do, the better it looks, but the longer it takes to get done, because you'll have to wait till the layers are set. (you may cheat and do the lower layers thicker, specially if the water is supposed to look murky)
The deepest layer should be more opaque (with more pigment – solid particles) AND more tinted (with a dye). Choose whatever color you need: blue, as in the ocean, dark (brown, or gray) as in a lake, muddy as in a plains river... then add less of it to each new layer, until you're left with just the clear (if you choose blue ocean or dark lake) or a bit of dye and pigment (muddy river), about 1mm thick in the surface. Roughen the surface af all but the topmost layer (120 of 180 grit sandpaper) after it sets (rock hard), so the next layer will adhere well AND blend better (in color) to the one underneath. It takes time. The more layers you do, the better it looks, but the longer it takes to get done, because you'll have to wait till the layers are set. (you may cheat and do the lower layers thicker, specially if the water is supposed to look murky)
Sheer elegance in its simplicity.
Political unrest in dictatorships is rather like a round of rock-paper-scissors: The oposition goes on denouncing the regime on the papers, the regime censors the papers, rock-throwing ensues.
Political unrest in dictatorships is rather like a round of rock-paper-scissors: The oposition goes on denouncing the regime on the papers, the regime censors the papers, rock-throwing ensues.
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MillenniumFalsehood
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not to hijack the thread or anything, but I also need a good water solution, and like Lonewolf said, I need it to be a relatively no-brainer, easy-to-use product that won't attack plastics. If it's any consequence, I also need it to resist reactions with wood stain. I'm working on a display for a couple of my 1:700 scale ships and need a good water solution. They will look similar to the effect achieved in Marco's "The Hunt" submarine dioroma.
If a redhead works at a bakery, does that make him a gingerbread man?
Ponies defeat a Star Trek villain? Give them a Star Wars award ceremony!
Ponies defeat a Star Trek villain? Give them a Star Wars award ceremony!
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Andrew Gorman
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Zen-Builder
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rocketrider
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I saw an article in Fine Scale Modeler years ago where it talked about creating a murky green water by adding layers of resin on top of one another, but with each top layer you lighten the color/pigment until the top one is clear, it created a depth to the water that was real looking. I assume you can use whatever pigment you need to get the desired color.
I have never tried this personally, so this is from what I have read.
Glen
I have never tried this personally, so this is from what I have read.
Glen
I've never had to make 'water' before, and there are some good ideas here. The first that comes to my mind since it's a time/breakage/no shrink project, is aquarium silicone.
maybe put some in an old tupperware dish; I use those small Zip Lock thro away tupperware for paints and such, and toss in some freeze dried coffee. For the 'coffee' colour you desire.
Just a thought, as stated I've never tried it, but makes sense on some level. No shrinkage, quick drying, and will not 'break'.
maybe put some in an old tupperware dish; I use those small Zip Lock thro away tupperware for paints and such, and toss in some freeze dried coffee. For the 'coffee' colour you desire.
Just a thought, as stated I've never tried it, but makes sense on some level. No shrinkage, quick drying, and will not 'break'.
If it flies, I can crash it.
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Shinnentai
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What you're thinking of is a finishing epoxy (Envirotex is a finishing epoxy too, the difference in viscosity is probably just a brand/manufacturer thing).starmanmm wrote:Lonewolf askedA friend of mine just used this method and I was impressed with how clear the water was. What it is is a two part product used to put a gloss finish on furniture (at Lowes it is called Gloss Coat). The guy who did the dio said that it generated little heat, which was a question for me for I had noticed that he had plastic grass blades right in the water. He also told me that he poured it not as thin as you would with Envirotech.Another suggestion was gloss medium (not really sure what this is, and if it would work, considering I need depth to the water, not just painting something on the surface of a board).
"Gloss medium" is an acrylic gell made for DIY art paint mixing (what Zen-Builder was talking about). It comes in a variety of thicknesses, opacities, and finishes. Heavy or extra-heavy gloss clear is what one would be using here, extra-heavy has about the consistancy of shortening or soft butter, and works exactly like the PVA "Water Effects" stuff Antenociti mentioned. "Liquitex" and "Golden" are the most common brands.
I love the stuff. It's uses go far beyond water simulation.