Basics. Airbrushing.

[Thomas E. Johnson]

Well... i tried putting a little dish washing soap and a drop of coloring so i could tell. And then i would keep ajusting the dial in the back to see if it would start spraying. But all i keep getting is just the propellant going through. I still cant figure out what i am doing wrong.......?

Your nozzel is screwed in to tight. you only need to tighten it until its snug, but not all the way in.

[irishtrek]

The MM acrylics, how much do I need to thin them for airbrushing? They are the current formula not the old.

[Thomas E. Johnson]

The MM acrylics, how much do I need to thin them for airbrushing? They are the current formula not the old.

All those paints except the figure paints on the very top of the rack are ready to airbrush straight from the bottle.

[irishtrek]

No thinning necessary, huh? Saves me the trouble of thinning out the paints. Thank you TJ.

[starmanmm]

I guess my question is, is the no name brand of say a windex type product just as good as using Windex in your acrylic paints?

Is the windshield washer fluid also as good?

[Lt. Z0mBe]

Are all fine airbrush needles so %$#$@ brittle?

My VL's fine needle has been bent all to crap from me just touching the damn thing trying to clean it. I mean, I can't so much as touch it to anything without destroying it. This one''s irrepairable. This is the second or third needle I've ruined. My medium needle and nozzle have never had an issue.

Are Badger and Iwata fine needles just as brittle?

Thanks,

Kenny

[Kylwell]

In a word, no.

[Lt. Z0mBe]

In a word, no.

Thanks Robb!!

I'm looking at some 360's and various Iwatas. The VL may be relegated to general painting.

Kenny

[Kylwell]

I talked with Tom Grossman this weekend about your problem. He also said, no. The difference is spring steel vs hi-carbon. He's the Iwata rep so of course he'll steer you to Iwata's but....

[Lt. Z0mBe]

I talked with Tom Grossman this weekend about your problem. He also said, no. The difference is spring steel vs hi-carbon. He's the Iwata rep so of course he'll steer you to Iwata's but....

Let me guess, I've got spring steel? Frack... I may have to purchase that 360 soon.

I mean, it's frackin silly. I can literally touch the tip of the needle to my fingertip and it's ruined. Grr... Aggravates the piss outta me.

Thanks for askin' Tom for me, Robb!

Kenny

[TER-OR]

No, I think spring steel is more resiliant. High carbon steel, IRRC, should be sharper but dull more quickly, and it should be a bit more brittle. I may not remember correctly, though.

[Kenny]

I use a solution of Simple Green, Distilled water, and Windex. I think it's mixed 10:20:5. I found it on the Finescale.com forum. It's my flush mixture, but for the cleaning at the end of the session, I use Testor's acrylic cleaner, reduced 50% with distilled water. I haven't found anything that cuts the old paint like that cleaner.

Dan

This "windex" brand, is it a concentrate or ready to use? We have no windex so I have to find a substitute.

[TER-OR]

Windex is a glass cleaner with ammonia. I'm sure you have a similar product. The ammonia seems to be very good at cutting through acrylics.

[Kenny]

Windex is a glass cleaner with ammonia. I'm sure you have a similar product. The ammonia seems to be very good at cutting through acrylics.

cheers, I have found a good strong whiffing window cleaner, just really needed to know for the concentration ratio

[TER-OR]

I use it full-strength, but then flush with plenty of water.

[Kenny]

Found a bottle of this at the local supermarket

http://diggersaust.com.au/prodinfo/cloudy.pdf

it is a strong Ammonia solution, and hence I thought it might be better for cleaning, anyone tried it?

[Lt. Z0mBe]

I have a Badger Anthem 155 and I use about 20 PSI. I believe the equipment is in good working order, but I can't seem to get the fine lines needed to do a proper post shading technique.

I use Tamiya acrylics with just a small bit of Tamiya thinner (probably in the ratio of 1:8 Thinner:Paint). Do I need to thin down the paint more?

Wise and Sagely Scale Modelers

I just started with my 155. I am having essentially the same issue. Differing PSI's and viscosities fail to grant me fine lines. Of course, I started with the default "milk" consistency and went from there.

What do you all do when you're going for really fine lines with the 155? I mean, PSI, and visosity would be great to know. The technique I can learn. I just can't seem to get in the damn ballpark with this thing.

I also have another issue when trying fine lines. The paint flow doesn't start right away. At first, I thought it was an issue with the thickness of the paint. But, I practiced with some decanted spraybomb primer, and the same issue occurred. Basically, I get to the area I want to paint the fine line, slowly depress and then rock the trigger, and nothing happens at first. If I wait several seconds, then paint happens. But, this usually results in a "splotch" there. Shouldn't the paint start right away? With my Paasche, the paint started the instant I rocked the trigger. This happens as high as 30 PSI and as low as 10-15 PSI. What am I doing wrong?

As always, help is appreciated.

Kenny

[Kylwell]

Fine lines take more skill than any other AB skills.

Part of the trick is to get the paint flowing off the subject. Then swoop in like an avenging angel and paint your line.

The better the AB the less swoop. A Paasche Turbo can paint fine lines all day long, that's what it was made for. Same with a Iwata Custom Micron brushes.

[Jonas Calhoun]

Respectfully disagree, Robb.

I've been practicing for 3 months doing nothing but airbrushing lines. I've got an Iwata Eclipse that I can do a hairline with now on demand, and from any stopping and starting position.

The big secrets for really thin lines:

Thin paint. Thinner than milk...like ink...or something that's already been reduced for airbrushing, like Com-Art (best results I've had so far is Com-Art and Gunze Sangyo). I also filtered the Gunze (com-art you don't need to). Don't thin it before filtering. I got some wedding tole (nylon mesh stuff) at a friend's wedding. I stuff a little down a funnel, and pour the paint through that into another bottle. Then run thinner down to clean the funnel and the tole--it'll also get some of the paint that's caught there. Then when the paint's thin enough, let 'er rip. And use good thinner--the stuff that the paint manufacturer supplies. The hardware store stuff works, but it's best for cleaning.

Pressure. Low pressure. Like 5-10 psi. Any more than that, and it splattered because of...

Closeness. The airbrush is almost touching the surface. I bought a crown cap for my airbrush that lets me almost touch the surface and still have the air exit without splattering. If you can't get one, or your airbrush can't support one, take the air cap off--just be careful that you don't touch the needle against whatever you are painting.

Seriously, I've done 3 things that have improved my airbrushing:

I bought 2 books: Airbrush: The complete Studio Handbook and The Ultimate Airbrush Handbook. The first one is more of a technical guide, pretty dry, but if you follow the exercises that it gives you, it'll work. Don't move onto the next exercise until you've mastered the last one. The second one is more of a practical guide, lots of good color pictures, things like that. Take what they say to heart.

I also practiced. Up until my twins died, I was going down to my booth and painting every night--half hour to an hour. All I would do is take some watercolor paper, draw squares 1/4 or 1/2 on it, and practice connecting the lines, spraying dots, gradiations, etc. The books talk about several basic strokes (dots, lines, and dagger strokes). Master them. I haven't done any in a while (going to try to get back in the saddle today, in fact). Don't worry about being perfect the first time--for me at least, the harder I tried the worse I was. Keep it loose. Keep the old stuff, and you'll be amazed at the difference 5-10 sessions make. Dork around--the only way you'll get better is practice. For me, I just noodled around after I got tired of the squares. Just saw what the airbrush could do when I really put my mind to it. Then went back to the squares.

I bought good paint. At first when I made the decision to practice, I thought I'd just practice with what was cheapest--craft paint. Big mistake. My wife talked me into buying good materials to practice with--her reasoning is don't fight the paint, and also practice with what you are going to use. Yeah, it's more expensive, but really--look at how much time and money we put into our models. Don't buy a $45 kit one month, spend it on paint and paper. You'll truly see a difference.

One of these days in my copious free time I want to write something for the site on what I've learned. Someone keep prodding me, I'll do it if there is interest.

Dan

[Kylwell]

Please do! I learned my skills using crappy Testors Enamels.

And yes, practice makes perfect.

[Jonas Calhoun]

Oh one more thing--try drawing straight lines freehand from different directions. I learned in a drawing book that most people assume they can't draw a straight line, when in fact if they try from different directions, they can.

I can draw a pretty straight line from upper left to lower right, but my wife has to go top to bottom. Anyway, try it from different directions, realize which one works best for you, and then rotate the subject so you can get a straight line.

Dan

[Lt. Z0mBe]

Holy crap!! Thanks!!!

I will thin even more tonight after work and give it another go. I have plenty of time to practice as I am laid up with pneumonia and can't run. Bright side is three to four days a week, I have an extra 90 minutes a night after work.

Low pressure and very thin media. Excellent!!

Kenny

[Lt. Z0mBe]

Well, I tried several very thin media. I tried acrylics (Pactra) and thinned Metallizers and some thinned model master enamels. I also used some decanted spraybomb primer thinned even more with lacquer thinner. They were thin. So thin, they wouldn't stick to the sides of the jar. I used my India Ink as a guide for thinning.

Here's what happened. Basically, I was able to get really fine lines with very, very thin stuff. Yay! But, I still had the issue of the splattering, or the paint just not being picked up by the 155. I never let it get above 10 PSI and tried it as low as two or three PSI. When paint gets picked up by the 155, on anything other than cardboard where it doesn't soak in right away, I still get some splattering and hence, a fine line with little trails running away from it and blobs around it. Tip and needle are intact, by the way.

I'm getting there, but there's something I am missing. Thoughts wise ones?

As always, I appreciate the wisdom.

Kenny

[Kylwell]

Hmmm, well typically this is when I'd say "It's a Badger" but this is no longer true.

What's your airsupply? Tank, compressor, compressed air, rectal?

Spattering is a sign of either poorly mixed paints (and sometimes even the Great Tamiya can do that), and/or a dirty brush. In either case little bits of pigment collect on a surface til they have enough resistance to break off. Sometimes a higher PSI will fix some of this. There's a reason some AB artists paint @ 30psi.

In a perfect world you would have PSI settings for different paints. As it is, you have to tweek and fuss with it. Try a little higher. MM Metalizers straight out of the bottle are a great test as they are thinned very nicely and consistantly for airbrushing.

[Lt. Z0mBe]

Hmmm, well typically this is when I'd say "It's a Badger" but this is no longer true.

What's your airsupply? Tank, compressor, compressed air, rectal?

Spattering is a sign of either poorly mixed paints (and sometimes even the Great Tamiya can do that), and/or a dirty brush. In either case little bits of pigment collect on a surface til they have enough resistance to break off. Sometimes a higher PSI will fix some of this. There's a reason some AB artists paint @ 30psi.

In a perfect world you would have PSI settings for different paints. As it is, you have to tweek and fuss with it. Try a little higher. MM Metalizers straight out of the bottle are a great test as they are thinned very nicely and consistantly for airbrushing.

Hmm, I tried rectal first, but the smell was terrible and the humidity filled my water trap up too quick.

Compressor is a Cyclone II

It could be poorly mixed paints I reckon. Perhaps I could up the PSI and now that I think about it, I wasn't very methodical with PSI within paint types. That is, I didn't try "X" PSI, and then "X" PSI, and then "Z" PSI for each paint type.

ALso, I use the syphon cup. Do you think I should try the little gravity feed cup for fine lines?

So many variables...so much potential...so much impatience

Kenny

[Jonas Calhoun]

User the gravity feed...at really low pressure, siphon can't pick up the paint.

Also, mixing is important--and filtering some. Shake the paint until your arm falls off, mix up some Aves, reattach your arm, and then shake it some more.

I bought one of the little Robart shakers--I put the paint in that, then start assembling my airbrush. By the time I'm done, the paint's more shaken than James Bond's martinis.

Dan

[Lt. Z0mBe]

User the gravity feed...at really low pressure, siphon can't pick up the paint.

Also, mixing is important--and filtering some. Shake the paint until your arm falls off, mix up some Aves, reattach your arm, and then shake it some more.

I bought one of the little Robart shakers--I put the paint in that, then start assembling my airbrush. By the time I'm done, the paint's more shaken than James Bond's martinis.

Dan

I didn't have the wedding stuff ou were talking about for filtering, so I use some of my... mean my wife's hose. Is that a good enough filter?

Kenny

[Jonas Calhoun]

Well, it depends on the size of the fishnet .

It's actually probably better...it's been a little while since I've looked, but the holes that hose has are smaller than the wedding tole I've got--I have to double the stuff up a bit to get effective filtering.

And also--play with the pressure--you'll find that for some types of paint, PSI X works better, but for others, PSI Y works better (and depends on the size of the needle and nozzle). I've got it written down for my paints somewhere what works best.

Dan

[Lt. Z0mBe]

Success!!

I changed thinners in all of the mediums. I won't go into details for them (took forever with three types of paint ), but I kept with very thin media and low pressure. I GOT THE FINE LINES WITH NO SPLATTER. Filter, thin to ink levels, set pressure to low and get in close.

Thank you!!

Kenny

[Jonas Calhoun]

Congrats! I always got frustrated at the people that'd only give general advice with airbrushing. Then I realized that it's slightly different for everyone, and the best way to do it truly is to practice!

You are on your way!

Dan