Wiring help- swim backwards!!!

Prince of Styrene II · Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:08 am

Got a question for all the electronic gurus out there. Recently I purchased a electric fish tank. Flip the switch & the fish (printed on a clear sheet) light up by a flourecant tube & travel from left to right on a conveyer belt-like system.
http://planetmyhill.com/Modelmaster/PIC ... aWorld.jpg

My question is... How do I get the fish to swim backwards? Here's some shots of the internal wiring. I left them kind of large to see the details.

http://planetmyhill.com/Modelmaster/PIC ... c_raw1.jpg
http://planetmyhill.com/Modelmaster/PIC ... c_raw2.jpg

Are there two wires I can switch in that mess, perhaps in the clear plastic "twist clamps", that will make it all run backwards?

Thanks for the help!

naoto · Post by **naoto** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:15 am

Of course, there's the obvious change of taking the plastic "conveyor belt" and flipping it -- the the fish will not only swim backwards but upside-down as well.

Prince of Styrene II · Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:04 pm

Can't do that with the way the system is enclosed into the caseing.

tetsujin · Post by **tetsujin** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:11 pm

I believe you've got an AC motor there, so I don't see how you could reverse its direction.

DC motors are sometimes (not always) reversible by reversing the polarity of the input voltage - this reverses the magnetic field created by the electromagnets in the spinning part of the motor.

AC motors work differently: Whereas DC motors use the spinning of the motor to reverse the polarity of the magnets periodically to keep the motor spinning, AC motors use the alternating current of their power source to reverse the polarity of the magnets - and so the permanent magnets can be mounted on the spinning part of the motor, the electromagnets on the outside, and the thing can be brushless. But this means the motor's most likely designed to spin one way.

So basically you need to find a solution to use the motor as-is to change the direction of those fish. The easiest way may be to flip the entire thing upside-down and remove the fish-belt and put it upside-down. If you can hide the fact that the thing's been turned upside-down (if, for instance, that base stand is removable) then that could work.

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:39 pm

If the shaft mounts to the motor via some sort of coupling that you can remove. And the shaft sticks out the other side, if you flip the motor upside down and shoes horn it in place (the mount doesn't look symmetrical) you will get the opposite rotation out of the shaft.

Prince of Styrene II · Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:04 pm

tetsujin wrote:So basically you need to find a solution to use the motor as-is to change the direction of those fish. The easiest way may be to flip the entire thing upside-down and remove the fish-belt and put it upside-down. If you can hide the fact that the thing's been turned upside-down (if, for instance, that base stand is removable) then that could work.

Flipping the entire thing upside-down had occured to me. The problem is that while the stand is removable (the two legs & flat base), what they hook into is molded into the bottom of the "aquarium". It would be major surgery to move it to the other side.

Sparky wrote:If the shaft mounts to the motor via some sort of coupling that you can remove. And the shaft sticks out the other side, if you flip the motor upside down and shoes horn it in place (the mount doesn't look symmetrical) you will get the opposite rotation out of the shaft.

The shaft, which is attached to the grey wheel (on top of the motor) is removable, It just sits on a small pin. It does not appear that the pin the shaft & wheel sits on goes out the other side of the motor.

good idea, though.

The thing plugs into the wall. Does that help anyone know if it's AC or DC?

Slide · Post by **Slide** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:00 pm

it means it's AC if it plugs into the wall without a DC-converter present[unless there's one on the chord]. unfortunately this also means you're boned.

Prince of Styrene II · Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:28 am

Someone please tell me you see one in that mess.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:11 pm

Does it have a wall wart? Big chunky wad of plastic that plugs into the outlet? If so, it's DC.

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:34 pm

In one of the pictures it shows the ac cord witht eh regular AC plug going right in to the motor. You can also almost make out the 60Hz rating ont eh side of the motor.

Prince of Styrene II · Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:41 am

Kylwell wrote:Does it have a wall wart? Big chunky wad of plastic that plugs into the outlet? If so, it's DC.

Wal wart! lol I havn't heard that one!

No, it doesn't have one.

Sparky wrote:In one of the pictures it shows the ac cord witht eh regular AC plug going right in to the motor. You can also almost make out the 60Hz rating ont eh side of the motor.

The writing on the motor says: TYD-42 (probably the serial number), 110V-130V, 1.5/2w, 50/60 Hz, 8/10 RPM. Does this help anyone? Ideally, I was thinking of hopefully just switching some wires, but I didn't want to do it without asking anyone for fear of blowing out the motor & having to blow another $20!

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:59 am

That's an AC motor.

Prince of Styrene II · Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:02 am

Sooooooo....... I can't switch the wires?

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:04 pm

No its AC Alteranting Current, so the voltage is already switching wires, at about 60 times a second

Switching the wires to the motor won't have any effect, accept the case will be 'hot' which isn't to safe for you.

You will have to hack the motor mounting to see if you can switch it around. maybe after you take it out of the housing you will find away to swap the shaft.

Were did you get it from anyways? Maybe I can find one locally to play with. I'm alwasy in the mood to <A HREF="http://www.kc6sye.com/techmages_3_27_06.html" target="_blank">hack some hardware</A>

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:26 pm

The first thing I'd try is, poping out the on off switch so it's not in the way then, bending <A href="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/E ... hacked.jpg" target="_blank">this bendy thingy</A> so I could look at the motor more closely.

Also you might find the same type of motor from all electronics that rotates the other way. as long as it has about the same size and same ratings it could be shoes horned in place.

Prince of Styrene II · Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:38 am

Sparky wrote:You will have to hack the motor mounting to see if you can switch it around. maybe after you take it out of the housing you will find away to swap the shaft.

Were did you get it from anyways? Maybe I can find one locally to play with.

I looked at it last night & I think there is enough room at the top of the casing, directly above where it is, to move it there. Just a bit of mods & it should work. I purchased the tank at The Paper Store, kind of like a Hallmark store.

Sparky wrote:The first thing I'd try is, poping out the on off switch so it's not in the way then, bending <A href="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/E ... hacked.jpg" target="_blank">this bendy thingy</A> so I could look at the motor more closely.

Also you might find the same type of motor from all electronics that rotates the other way. as long as it has about the same size and same ratings it could be shoes horned in place.

I'll try to get a shot of that for you posted today. And, alas, with my budget, I'm trying to make due with what I have. Looks like palstic surgery may be in order.