Torpedo firing circuit

[drache]

Anyone have any ideas on designing a cirucit to make this sucker work?

[DLMatthys]

Good idea...

I would even like to etch out a ready made circuit board and a soldure yourself kit. With chips and parts.

[jwrjr]

You can get a fairly good one from me, and VoodooFX has a better one listed on his website.

[drache]

Voodoo's kit is really cool, but it's $90 - a bit too steep for me.

[DLMatthys]

A soldure yourself kit in between $15 to $25
I call that reasonable.

And I put to a challege... to any E engineer reading here...(for which I am not)

Come up with a schematic useing regular hobbiest off the shelf PCB parts and chips. (make a list, ie DigiKey)
And a circuit etch trace would be a plus...a rough schetch on a napkin even, that I can take to Illustrator.
Please,( not to offend basic stamp fans),... nothing you have to "program" off a computer.

Something a hobbiest can soldure down, power up, flip a switch..."Fire One, Fire Two!"

An intrepid elelctronics engineer with some gumption and comon sense can earn themselvs a big butt load of favors and products from DLM

[Pat Amaral]

A few months ago, Virtualight posted a photorp circuit she was working on that was based on design found in Paul Newitt's StarFleet Assembly Manual 4. She posted a link to the schematic she developed but I've been unable to find it on her site and I can't find the copy of the file I had. Perhaps she is reading this and she'll repost the link to her schematic.

[DLMatthys]

I was thinking along the lines of that angle also, Pat. She nailed it pretty good. And I did see the video and have the files she posted.

But since I do have an original System-E board and a signed copy #425 of Newiitt's SFAM#4 on hand I may take a close look at that option. I'm looking for somthing from someone more original. A lot of those System E parts and IC chips are obsolete. As for Newitt... last I heard he is become a model rail road wrangler.

So far it seams like all of them electronics engineers who come by here must be off elswhere imershed into HALO 3

[Pat Amaral]

Hey, Don,

Maybe could you send me a copy of Virtualight's files, since I seem to have lost mine? That is, if you don't mind? Check the email at the bottom.

Thanks in advance,

[Shizman]

Voodoo's kit is really cool, but it's $90 - a bit too steep for me.

Has anyone purchased this kit? I want a review of it before I buy it, plus details about how it works.

[MillenniumFalsehood]

There's a much cheaper lighthouse kit for model railroaders available somewhere that seemed like an ideal cheap way to get a phototorp launcher, but the site it was on escapes me.

[Pat Amaral]

There's a much cheaper lighthouse kit for model railroaders available somewhere that seemed like an ideal cheap way to get a phototorp launcher, but the site it was on escapes me.

Is this what you're talking about?

[photoguy]

The problem with that one is that it ramps up to full intensity, and then fades out gradually. I believe it uses a simple sin wave generator. For the photon torpedo to look convincing, it has to "ramp up" to full intensity, and cut off abruptly.
From what I saw on VoodooFX's website, that is what theirs does, and it looks quite believable. It is pretty expensive though, especially when I look at how many other lights and flashing circuits I want to build into mine.

[jwrjr]

The VFX torpedo ramps up gradually, flashes, and fades out quickly. Also, there is a white led that flashes at the same time as the red one. It is based on video from the second movie, and not at all on a sine wave.

[photoguy]

Right. That's why the VFX one is so cool. I was referring to the "lighthouse" kit when I mentioned the sin wave. Sorry for any confusion.

[jwrjr]

It is based ona modified sine wave. But the curve is different going up and going down. Sine waves are useful when one wants a smooth fade.

[kitty]

As far as i can tell by looking at the firing sequences frame by frame, there are actualy 2 colors, 1 orange/red ramps up to full in approx. 0.6 seconds, holds full for 1 second, and ramps down in approx. 0.6 seconds.
The second color is a 1/10 sec white or blue flash exactly in the middle of the 1 second hold.
The flash overloads our optic nerves and we register that flash as longer while the rampdown of the orange is already in progress which we don't register.
Hence the impression that after firing the light fades abruptly.
A close look at the foottage also reveales that they brightned up all the white that is in front of the torpedo launcher in post production.
At least for the Movie Enterprise 1701 and 1701A.
I havent looked closely at the ent D and E yet

[Shizman]

As far as i can tell by looking at the firing sequences frame by frame, there are actualy 2 colors, 1 orange/red ramps up to full in approx. 0.6 seconds, holds full for 1 second, and ramps down in approx. 0.6 seconds.
The second color is a 1/10 sec white or blue flash exactly in the middle of the 1 second hold.
The flash overloads our optic nerves and we register that flash as longer while the rampdown of the orange is already in progress which we don't register.
Hence the impression that after firing the light fades abruptly.
A close look at the foottage also reveales that they brightned up all the white that is in front of the torpedo launcher in post production.
At least for the Movie Enterprise 1701 and 1701A.
I havent looked closely at the ent D and E yet

I wonder how difficult this would be to do with a PIC. Can't be that hard and the parts would be cheap. I'm going to play around with some PIC programming and see what I come up with. Anyone try this approach?

[photoguy]

That's the direction I was thinking. Though I've never tried Programming myself.

[jwrjr]

Look carefully at the VFX torpedo. That is exactly what is going on. It uses an 8 pin PIC.

[Shizman]

Look carefully at the VFX torpedo. That is exactly what is going on. It uses an 8 pin PIC.

Is there a particular PIC I should try this with? It seems like there is a plethora of PIC chips out there.

[jwrjr]

That depends on the program you are going to write for it. The 12F5XX chips probably don't have the resources for the job. The 12F6XX chips, especially the ones that run at 8 mhz, are sufficient and are pretty much interchangeable.

[Madman Lighting]

I could do it with my kit pretty easily, its already got a microcontroller on it and the software is all setup to read brightness levels from a table. I dont know what people are willing to pay for such a beastie and now that I've read this thread it might be a little unethical to "borrow" all these good ideas.

-John C.

[photoguy]

A soldure yourself kit in between $15 to $25
I call that reasonable.

And I put to a challege... to any E engineer reading here...(for which I am not)

Come up with a schematic useing regular hobbiest off the shelf PCB parts and chips. (make a list, ie DigiKey)
And a circuit etch trace would be a plus...a rough schetch on a napkin even, that I can take to Illustrator.
Please,( not to offend basic stamp fans),... nothing you have to "program" off a computer.

Something a hobbiest can soldure down, power up, flip a switch..."Fire One, Fire Two!"

An intrepid elelctronics engineer with some gumption and comon sense can earn themselvs a big butt load of favors and products from DLM

Pretty much sums up what I would call reasonable for price range. Could this be an "add-on" or separate small kit. The programming of the chip is the part that I am totally unfamiliar with. Wires, solder, and electronic bits don't scare me a bit.

[Shizman]

I could do it with my kit pretty easily, its already got a microcontroller on it and the software is all setup to read brightness levels from a table. I dont know what people are willing to pay for such a beastie and now that I've read this thread it might be a little unethical to "borrow" all these good ideas.

-John C.

I think $50 or less is about right (I'd say MUCH less). If you keep your prices too high, it just drives away sales. For example, the VoodooFX stuff is FAR too high priced for what you get and what you can figure out on your own given enough time on the internet.

I know there's a point where you need to make a profit, but I think if you miss the sweet spot by going too high, you scare people away.

[kitty]

A small board just for the torpedo launch for $15?
That should be easy enough, you can do it with less than $8 worth of components (including the PIC), leaving $7 for the pcb.
Al you need is a microcontroller with a counter , 2 PWM outs and some memory for the program
There are 8 pin Pics that can do it that only cost like $2.00-$3.00.
And you could even throw in a soundeffect with those
Or you could use a small Atmel microcontroller

[Madman Lighting]

*Sigh*

The thing that hobbyists forget is that if you're running a biz, you need to make a profit on what you buy so I bet I could buy just the parts and PCB for that much but then I get nothing for my time and effort to invent it, build it, box it, etc and my retailer gets nothing for selling it. Sure Randy's stuff is pricy but I'm not getting rich playing this game either.

If Kitty can invent, build and sell it for $15, I'll be pretty impressed.

Now I have a question for the PIC fans in this group:

I know you need to be as simple as possible with your PIC but I'm spoiled with my On Semi micro that has background debug mode and lets me code in C. Do PICs have similar features at the $1 per part price? How expensive are the starter development kits?

Thanks!!

-John C.

[jwrjr]

I am pleased the at least someone recognizes that there is more to the cost of putting out a circuit than the cost of the parts. But then you, ML, would know about that.
The free programming environment for the PIC, called MPLAB IDE, comes with a C compiler. I don't use it as PIC ASM becomes nearly intuitive after one has used it for a while. But it is there.
The chip that I use most often (including for the photon torpedo) is a PIC12f683. In lots of 25 this runs about $1.05 each.
The programmer that I use is a pickit2. Digikey sells this for about $35 the last time I looked. This is intended to work with an in-circuit header. But last week I found a generic programming socket on Ebay for $10 ("buy it now"). The software comes with the programmer, and you can download the latest versions from the Microchip website.

[photoguy]

Would something along the lines of a "sawtooth generator" hooked up to a momentary switch work for this application?

I found this site http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams ... ckt2.shtml
with a diagram using a good ol' 555 timer to generate a slow increase in brightness, with a fast cut off after it hits peak voltage.


Might be worth a try.

[kitty]

If Kitty can invent, build and sell it for $15, I'll be pretty impressed.

Look at this: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/1 ... guide.html

You can find complete programmable boards there for $17.50, that can do a lot more than just the torpedo sequence.
If the torpedo sequence is all you want that should be doable with a preprogrammed PIC or AMTEL with a lot less memory and no usb connector etc.
$15 should allow for a nice profit.
But these arduino boards are all you need and you'll have a lot more outputs than needed for the torpedo launch.
You just have to write the program.

So I don't have to design a torpedo launch PCB, because it is already available.
I did however design a universal programmable circuit for 16 seperate sequences with serial interface which would cost a bit more, because it uses a more expensive microcontroller and more components than needed for the torpedo sequence.
I have build it on experimental board, but i won't produce it, i just want it working inside my 1/350 PL enterprise A.
Although i might go for a arduino nano as alternative and save me the hassle of designing a PCB.

Besides, the $15-$20 was for a solder yourself kit containing a pcb, the components (including a programmed microcontroller if that's what is used), not a built kit.
The parts should cost a lot less than $15 -$20
And the profit is payment for the time you spend designing it and programming it.
My design was not meant to make any money, it was just something i wanted to do, so the circuit and later on the finished program is all GNU not commercial.

[Madman Lighting]

OK, I'm a little impressed but there's more to the story.

$15 gets you a bare expansion board with no parts and no microcontroller. If you want the small version that is the same size as my board and has a micro on it, thats $50 and you still dont get the LED drivers I have on mine and you have to write your own real-time code which is not trivial.

Arduino is an impressive set of micro boards and I may play with one someday. They're similar to the PIC BASIC stamp cards and some of the other micro controller proto boards out there and they do some pretty neat stuff, but not for $15.

-John C.