Good decal paper

[holt]

Hello guy i have a question i just got some papilio decal paper and it seems to stretch and crack is this paper any good if not can anyone tell me whats a good paper to buy and where to get it thanks.

[Joseph Osborn]

Hmm... Papilio is usually pretty decent stuff. How are you printing onto your paper? Inkjet, Laser, Alps, something else? Is your decal cracking up in the water bath or are you getting it onto the model and having problems with a setting chemical? More info would help to diagnose your problem.

As for other suppliers, Bare-Metal Foil Co. sells some really good decal paper for inkjets and lasers. Tango Papa Decals sells the best decal paper available but it is not compatible with inkjets.

[holt]

I'm not sure the i can't find anything in the manual that says I'm fally sure it's not a laser and I'm new to this so I'm not sure what a alps is the printers a brother DCP-130c color printer,scanner,photo center and copier.As for the decal i was just testing so i didn't use a setting solution the decal seemed like it didn't want to cum off the paper and win it did it would stretch and the ink would look like it was cracking. The paper seems to thin to me I've applied a lot of decals in my time and never had this problem.

[holt]

OK i looked it up and it is an ink jet like i thought and i have ink jet paper.

[Joseph Osborn]

The spray fixative is the key step to sealing an inkjet decal, but is sounds like you're having a problem just getting the decal off the paper. Maybe the test decals you made did not soak long enough in the water bath to fully activate the glue in the paper. The glue acts like a lubricant at first to get the decal off the paper, then as it dries it adheres the decal to the substrate. It is also possible that you have a bad piece of paper.

Sorry I can't be more of a help, but there are so many variables to inkjet decals that it's tough to fix a problem without having all the details of each step in the process.

[holt]

Thanks for the help Joseph i actually tried this three different times waiting up 30 seconds the last time and i did clear coat it with crystal clear but i think I'm going to experiment with it some more.

[Underlord]

Ugh! I'm having this problem too. I printed out the reliant Pendragon decals I downloaded off of this site. I gave them 5 coats of Krylon UV-clear. I've tried everything from 10 seconds to a minute soak. The decal comes off the paper fine with over 6 seconds of warm water soak. My problem occurs when sliding the decal off the paper onto the model.

My "standard" decaling process starts with a quick coat of decal solvant on the part. After soaking the decal I position it over the part, slid the decal a little off one end in position and anchor that end with another finger. I then slowly slide the paper along the part allowing the decal to "fall" in place. My printed decals behave as if they were printed on a rubber film. I suspect they would stretch 30-40% longer before breaking. While this may assist in fitting bumps and gullies in the part, it makes sliding the decal off the paper problematic at best. The decals tend to fold in on themselves.

Last night I shot two more coats of UV and today I'm going to see what happens if I coat a sheat with Future.

[Joseph Osborn]

Ugh! I'm having this problem too. I printed out the reliant Pendragon decals I downloaded off of this site. I gave them 5 coats of Krylon UV-clear. I've tried everything from 10 seconds to a minute soak. The decal comes off the paper fine with over 6 seconds of warm water soak. My problem occurs when sliding the decal off the paper onto the model.

My "standard" decaling process starts with a quick coat of decal solvant on the part. After soaking the decal I position it over the part, slid the decal a little off one end in position and anchor that end with another finger. I then slowly slide the paper along the part allowing the decal to "fall" in place. My printed decals behave as if they were printed on a rubber film. I suspect they would stretch 30-40% longer before breaking. While this may assist in fitting bumps and gullies in the part, it makes sliding the decal off the paper problematic at best. The decals tend to fold in on themselves.

Last night I shot two more coats of UV and today I'm going to see what happens if I coat a sheat with Future.

That's waaaaaay too much clear coat on top of your decal. Two coats, three thin coats max.

[Kylwell]

Yes, a light misting or 2 is all you need. Just enough to help the ink stay bonded to the decal medium.

[Underlord]

I guess that was a knee jerk responce to what happened when I didn't spray anything on my inkjet printed decals LOL

Thanks for the advise... good thing I bought a 50 pack of these, and started in a "hidden" area

I'll try the next one with a light misting, and if that fails I'll try brushing some future on to keep the ink away from the water.

[Underlord]

That's waaaaaay too much clear coat on top of your decal. Two coats, three thin coats max.

Tried two thin coats this weekend and the film stretched like taffyafter I soaked it. I think papilio has produced a bad batch and we both ended up with them. VERY frustrating.

The only way I've been able to use these sheets is with 3+ coats of Future. The biggest problem with this is the decals are pretty stiff by the time that much Future builds up on them. I tried brushing it on first, but that was way too thick. Next I tried airbrushing it on and found they still turned to taffy with any less than three medium to heavy coats. Once there is that much Future on them, the decals don't conform well over details or edges.

I'm waiting for my Micro Liquid Decal Film to come in, perhaps that will do better. If not, I'll try reconditioning my color laser printer so it prints without banding and try some laser decals.

[Underlord]

holt...

GOOD NEWS!

Yesterday my MicroScale Liquid Decal film came in. I brushed on a light coat over the Krylon UV Clear light layers. After 15 minutes of drying time, the decals worked just like stock ones!

I did notice that papilio lists a similar product on their website in a 4oz container that costs about double the 1 oz of liquid decal film I bought. I might try that next, or if you bought the 100 pack, go streight for papilio's Decal Fixative.

Hope you have similar results!

[Joseph Osborn]

holt...

GOOD NEWS!

Yesterday my MicroScale Liquid Decal film came in. I brushed on a light coat over the Krylon UV Clear light layers. After 15 minutes of drying time, the decals worked just like stock ones!

I did notice that papilio lists a similar product on their website in a 4oz container that costs about double the 1 oz of liquid decal film I bought. I might try that next, or if you bought the 100 pack, go streight for papilio's Decal Fixative.

Hope you have similar results!

Cheers to success!
I love Microscale Liquid Decal Film. It's like liquid magic. I apply it to all of my Alps-printed decals before I send them out to customers and it substantially increases the durability of the normally-fragile Alps wax.

[Underlord]

this just in...

I was indeed frustrated, so yesterday I emailed papilio about my woes. I described my process and results. Today at lunch I recieved a very detailed email from Anthony King at Papilio. He described how he himself had experienced the same issues, and since he was a modeler himself he suggested the two ways he combats the issue.
1) He uses a decal mounting fluid (or laundry soap & water) to allow the decals to slide around easily for positioning.
2) He has found that if the decal itself is too stretchy, it hasn't soaked in water long enough. He microwaves his water for 30 seconds, and lets his decals soak for a full 30 seconds, or until they are practically falling off the paper.

He also suggests that Krylon UV Clear aerosol probably contains "Toulene", and that will indeed turn the decal surface into goo. Spraying close to the decals can transfer too much "Toulene" for the decals to handle. Spraying further away may help.

All in all, it has been a learning experience! And that afterall is exactly what I'm looking for at this phase I remember having a half dozen or so decals per model back in the day. These aztec decal models are sure pushing my decaling skills forward! Now I just have to teach myself Illustrator

film at 11. And now a word from our sponsor...

[holt]

Underlord I'm glad you revived this thread I'm about to do a full aztek decal job on an Enterprise-B and I'm not happy about the idea of using after market decal that I have to seal myself because of problems I've had in the past So I have a few ?. My options are testers decal bonder which seems like it's Ok stuff but will it yellow the decals over time it's lacquer after all. Option 2 Microscale decal film this seems like it might be safer but can it be airbrushed on.

[Underlord]

Holt: How did you do? I haven't tried the Testors decal bonder. On my last attempt (a 1:1400 Enterprise D) I used the Microscale Decal Film in my airbrush and it worked GREAT!! I was also using laser decals instead of the ink jet. A friend of mine gave me a color laser printer, so I'm going to try using it from now on.