Help for a noob...

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:13 pm

Greetings all.
I have been reading the posts here for several days and I admire what everyone has done.

I have been doing models since I was 7 and that means off and on for 36 years so I have seen many different wonderful changes to modeling.

One thing I never did was light a model. Now I have some idea on how to do it, but doing the IC circuts really is throwing me for a loop.

I know how I want to light my NX01 and 1701-A refit, but the on/off nav lights and fade-in/out change color on the photon's has me bejewled.

I have been looking at various so called electronic supplier place around town and quite frankly I am disappointed.

So I am turning to you folks.

I have some questions.

1) I am assuming that I will need multiple v batteries to run the different light systems.
2) For always on, can I just use drop-out resistors with led's and no IC's?
3) The nav beacons on the primary hull and nacelles need to be synced. That means I need to drive them off the same 4060 circut?

I was looking at: http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A ... ategory=39

Would this work or is it over kill?

I'd even be happy to pay someone to build the different pcb circuts I need.

Your input will be appreciated.

jwrjr · Post by **jwrjr** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:38 pm

The light computer that you have a link for will work fine for light bulbs, not so good for leds. It assumes that the lights it is controlling are powered by AC, not DC.
I build a line of effects controllers that will do all that you need. They work fine for leds and, up to the max limit on current, light bulbs.
For a big project like these, I wouldn't use batteries. Not unless you don't mind changing them frequently. I almost always use an AC adapter.

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:41 pm

OK so I am still looking at doing this thing with the lighting.

So far my shopping list

3mm White - Buy 50
http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog ... 104RWC%2DA

3mm Ultra Blue - Buy 50
http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog ... 104QBC%2DD

I know I need to some Yellow and will add that to the list.

4060c IC - Buy 10... Know of a cheaper place to order from?
http://www.electronicpartsforless.com/s ... =36&dfid=1

Assorted Resistors and Capcitors.
I could use a little insight as to what values I should get. I know the calculation for determining Ohm value for lights in series

(Pwr Supply - Voltage Load) / ( ohm/1000)

So I will be getting appropiate values.

Wire... gauge recommended??

Also I will be looking for a regulated 12v wall wart, but would like some idea as to amp value I should target.

Another question to all those who have done this is an idea of how many lights I will need.

I found a schematic for a pulsing torp light and am looking for a "drag-tree" schematic. I want to light the shuttle deck with landing lights.

As I do all this I will be making a step by step for each model with parts list, website where I get parts, how many, and credits to everyone who gives me advice.

Thanks for the help in advance folks.

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:08 pm

OK I think Ifound a source for the 4060 and maybe 555C IC's.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... 4060BCN-ND

Every electronic place I've been to in town doesn't have any 555's or 4060's

Bummer!

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:31 am

damonh wrote:-snip-
(Pwr Supply - Voltage Load) / ( ohm/1000)

So I will be getting appropriate values.

Wire... gauge recommended??

Also I will be looking for a regulated 12v wall wart, but would like some idea as to amp value I should target.

Another question to all those who have done this is an idea of how many lights I will need:

I found a schematic for a pulsing torp light and am looking for a "drag-tree" schematic. I want to light the shuttle deck with landing lights.

I think you need
(Pwr Supply - Voltage Load) / (Load Current)
E=I*R (Eagles fly over Indians and Rabbits)
P=I*E (mmm Pie)
E is electro motive force measured in Volts, I is current measured in Amps, and R is resistance measured in Ohms.

For each LED resistor loop you can use pretty small stuff 24 AWG, but for the main buss that runs power from the power plug on the ships hull, you want something beefy so you don't have issues with the loading. 18 AWG should be more than enough.

The johnson counter is a good way to do chasing LED circuit (as long as it's not a back and forth chasing like KIT or a Cylon), this if you don't go with a microcontroller.

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:07 pm

Yeah me!!!!!

I found out that All Electronics in located just a couple of miles from me!!! WhoooHoooo $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$

SO I have my shopping list and will start work on some circuits this weekend.
As I get them working I will Post:

4060 CAT# 4060 10
4017 CAT# 4017 5
610 1/4 WATT RESISTOR ASSORTMENT CAT# RES-61
GREEN 5MM T1 3/4 LED CAT# LED-2 10
T 1 3/4 RED LED CAT# LED-1 10
YELLOW 5MM T1 3/4 LED CAT# LED-3 10
ULTRA-BRIGHT WHITE LED, 5MM CAT# LED-121 10
5MM ULTRABRIGHT BLUE LED, BLUE OFF-STATE CAT# LED-117 10
224 PC CERAMIC CAP SET 14 VALUES 10PF-220nF CAT# CK-1 1

WallWart 13AWG 1000mA regulated, wire, and project board besides all the parts

Does it look like I am missing anything?

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:17 pm

Some 18 AWG solid wire for hookup (you're testing on a breadboard?)

In the model it might be better to use stranded, just take some solid and flex it back and forth a few dozen times and see it break. If you will be handling the model at all you want some wire that can take being moved about and stuffed into nooks and crannies without developing breaks or other damage.

The worst case is you have some connection point on a board or LED, that is near it's fatigue point, then after final install (like getting a nacelle onto a pylon) the wire breaks. You tested it just before assembly but then after the glue dries it doesn't work anymore

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:58 pm

hmmm.... the power supply: 2.25A SWITCH PWR SUPPLY, REGULATED
CAT# PS-22

2.25 amps Provides 3 / 4.5 / 5 / 6 / 7.5 / 9 or 12 Vdc, and it's regulated

Will this do?

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:00 pm

Thanks for the info. Yeah I was going to use solid for bread board testing and stranded for model.

en'til Zog · Post by **en'til Zog** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:12 pm

Um, Damonh? If you haven't done lighting in models before, I would strongly suggest some simple lighting projects first. Starting with the projects you have in mind would be a bit difficult for some people that have been lighting models for years. Maybe you could build and light a D7 snap kit first. Then something with a couple 'a flashing lights.

I'm not trying to put you down or belittle your modeling skill. Lighting a model just adds another level of complexity that takes time to get used to. And using a bunch of 4060's and 555's is going to be surprisingly complex.

I'd rather see you curse me, but start with a few simple projects, get some experience, and then go on to the grand projects, rather than start with something that's going to drive you nuts and kill the fun.

And I envy you, living near ALL!

Model on, my friend!

macfrank · Post by **macfrank** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:16 pm

Instead of the 555 timer, you should always try to use the CMOS version, the 7555. It works just as well as the 555, but with considerably lower power consumption and better noise immunity. It's a little more expensive than the 555, but worth it.

Frank

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:22 pm

LOL!!!
Yeah I kinda figured this would be complex.
Here's how I will tackling this beastie.

Current project is a race car my brother gave me. I figured I could wire the head/tail lights for that. Simple steady/on 4 leads.

Next project either the Galileo or something similar.

Next my RMS Titanic. Have a bundle of fiber optics from a friend been itching to use.

During all of this I will be working on the big E circuitry.
I plan on first drawing out a full scale layout of the ship and draw in the lights as I want them.

Next start with simple series and paralell circuits.

Next add in the flashing strobes

Next the landing lights using the decade counter

All of this to be done on bread boards outside the model.

Once I have all the circuits built and running from one source I should be ready to start working on the actual model.

Mainly between all this I will be building other models and lighting them.

This is going to be FUN and take a long time.

And I am sure I will be around to ask lots and lots of questions.

I did see the kit at trekmodeler.com Almost tempted to buy that. The cost of everything is about 166.00US from All Electronics.

So I figure I am still saving money and learning a new skill. Never too old to learn.

Cheers.

jwrjr · Post by **jwrjr** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:20 pm

Before buying Trekmodeler's kit, it might be well to find out how many of the kits he has actually delivered. What I hear about that is not complimentary.

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:08 pm

Good to know. Thanks jwrjr!

IF everything goes well I want to put together a parts list, schematics, and step by step instructions online for anyone wanting to do this.

The problem I've found is many of you have built your models and given advice, but there is a lack of real solid information for anyone else wanting to do this and not knowing where or how to being.

Besides, paying over 200.00 US for a supplemental kit seems a little prohibitive for a model that costs 40.00-60.00 US depending on where you get it.

I figure if people want to do this they should be able to get the information they need without a lot of major hassle. Besides, if they wish to donate for my hard work I will let them, but no one will be obligated to.

Oh well. I look forward to this and will enjoy doing this project.

90% of all my models got destroyed in the last move due to careless movers.

otherwise I would be able to show off my work.

My crowning achievement was the US Constitution clipper. That took me about 2yrs to build and complete. Massive detailing.

Thanks again for your's and Sparky's input.

DLMatthys · Post by **DLMatthys** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:11 pm

damonh wrote:Greetings all...

One thing I never did was light a model. Now I have some idea on how to do it, but doing the IC circuts really is throwing me for a loop.I know how I want to light my NX01 and 1701-A refit, but the on/off nav lights and fade-in/out change color on the photon's has me bejewled.I have been looking at various so called electronic supplier place around town and quite frankly I am disappointed.

So I am turning to you folks. I have some questions.

I recommend a starter circuit of mine that will flash strobes and
blink running lights. The Federation Flasher Board (FFB)

http://www.dlmparts.com/pages/6/index.htm

It is a soldure yourself kit. Parts are marked...instructions show how to find part polarity.

You'll need to learn and get some experaince at lighting
sci-fi models and some background in elelcronics. Solduring
skills too.

Here is some elelctronics info for hobbyists lots of simple DYI LED circuits:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... mepage.htm

Also look for some books at your local Radio Shack ...The Engineers Handbooks by Forest Mimms. The one about optiolelctronics is the best of the bunch.

A Kalmbach book about Star Wars modeling A Galaxy Far Far Away by FSM editor Matt Usher, gives good guidance for lighting and electronics neophytes on how to light up a model. Simple enough for your first ever lighted model. All the skills mentioned there are tansferable to Trek models.

The PL Refit Enterprise should not be your first model lighting project. An easier model kit for lighting would be like a Klingon BOP from AMT/ERTL. I have a circuit board kit for that model that will gain you experiance.Simple circuits kit that are not so overthunk as the theories metioned here on a dark bread board.

BTW I am a modeler, not an engineer. Also a soldure yourself kit for the NX-01 is just about ready... coming just around the corner.

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:36 pm

I edited the link in your post to Bill's page.

That's a good one i had it in my electronics book mark folder.

damonh · Post by **damonh** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:36 pm

OK So over the weekend I went through my model closet and found an AMT/ERTL Defiant kit. I will use this as my first lighting project.

I also broke out my old electronic books from when I was in the army and started reviewing them. I was a radio repairman in the army and the basics are coming back. I haven't done anything with electronics for almost 20 years since I went into programming.

But it will be fun.

Cheers!

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:38 pm

The basics you have there will keep you in good standing for what you will need for most model lighting. It has for me.

DLMatthys · Post by **DLMatthys** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:41 pm

damonh wrote:OK So over the weekend I went through my model closet and found an AMT/ERTL Defiant kit. I will use this as my first lighting project.

Also a good choice for first time starshop lighting.

Some more advanced options could include opened ports and windows located on the bottom side of the model. Fill them in with clear resins. Some rings of light on top. Aftermarket parts cast in clear resins for lighting the engines. EL sheets to light them and some simple blinking circuits with LEDs

A nice big model and lots of room to work within.

The Trekmodeler · Post by **The Trekmodeler** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:52 pm

jwrjr wrote:Before buying Trekmodeler's kit, it might be well to find out how many of the kits he has actually delivered. What I hear about that is not complimentary.

Sorry, Just noticed this now...Better late than never though!

It has been a little over a year already since we made the Refit Lighting System available. The kit was released on April 29, 2007 and since then we have sold and shipped so many worldwide. Even our numerous customers in Japan and Australia have received their Lighting Kits either on time or even ahead of schedule. We keep track of every single order we receive, so I don't know what the heck you're yapping about when you say "it might be well to find out how many of the kits he has actually delivered". Are you implying that we take money from people and don't deliver? If so why would you be the one to "hear" of it?

The Trekmodeler · Post by **The Trekmodeler** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:56 pm

double post

jwrjr · Post by **jwrjr** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:32 pm

I have never heard anyone claim that Trekmodeler took money from any customer and failed to deliver the product.

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