Babylon 5 Station, Any motorization tips?

[DLMatthys]

I'd like to motorize the Mongram kit of the Babylon 5 Space Station.
I am sure a clockworks motor with a ring and pinion gear would be involved as well as a slip ring to get power the the rotating cylinder.

Also some fun with LEDs and fiber optics would be included.

Has anybody else tried this befor?
...or shall I have to invent it?

Any ideas tips and web sites would be helpfull on the B5 station model.
Are there any off the store shelves consumer products that could be canabalized, re-engineered and refited?

[Pat Amaral]

Hi Don,

I thought about this a while ago but never acted on it. I was thinking of modifying the base and mounts to house two small belts (rubber bands?). A motor with a through shaft housed in the base could turn the belts which are mounted to each end of the rotating portion of the hull (picture a rock tumbler).
You'd still need to rig some kind of brush system to supply power to the internal lighting but at least the mechanicals could be kept outside of the model for the most part.

After building the kit a few years ago (sans lighting and mechanicals), I realised that any motorized solution would also have to involve some kind of bering (maybe teflon rings) on each end to make it turn more smoothly.

Obviously, any solution will require major modification to the model. I don't see any "drop in" solution that would work.

[DLMatthys]

Pat
I think bearings at the ends of the rotating O'Neil Cylinder would be a good idea too.

So far my search on the Google (if I could find my way past all the 1/1 scale automitive transmission parts) lead me to Small Parts Inc to thier machined brass miniature ring gears. I found most of them, the less than couple of inch diameter types, to be costing around $50 for an internal ring gear. $11 for a pinon.

That's just as much for the full sized ring gears on my car's transmission!

I would want to mount it in the O'Neil Cylinder fixed to the interior of the cylinder. The clockworks motor would be fixed to an internal stationary shaft...its pinion to drive the ring gear @ mayby 2 rpm. The kits "A" frame plastic base suports would be replaced with 2 verticle brass tubes that will also be conduits of the wires.

I think I may have done somting like this befor when I built a model of a tunnel boring machine for a client. This time I want the cylnder to rotate... not the cutter.

[Pat Amaral]

That sounds very cool, Don. good luck with it. I'd love to see what you end up with.

Cheers,

[Madman Lighting]

Don,

I'm curious too. I've thought about motorizing a B5 now and again and thought of using a planetary gearing scheme to do it, but never thought through the details.

Let us know how it goes.

-John

[Kenny]

Headphone jacks make an ideal way to run current through rotating parts, the jack becomes one end of an axle

[DLMatthys]

It's been frustrating to find an internal ring gear that will fit the inside diameter of the main O'neil cylinder of the kit. (35.9mm / 1.38in) One that fits to the ID and one that's cheap!

I think I may have to have it made to order. A machine shop could charge as much at $300 for metals like steele or brass just for the set up. But so happens that the signshop who cuts my paint masks also has laser cutter from a vector or CAD file. Ive gotten some pretty close tolerances befor from laser cut Plastic parts

This thing should not have to spin RPMs no faster than a clock.

In the episode that Kosh left it's encounter suit to save a weightless Sheridan after escaping an exploding tram; Ivanova stated that the ground level speed of rotation was 60 miles per hour!

So there's a good problem for a math geek to solve...what is the RPMs to get one G on B5?

[belkin321]

Don,
Watching the B5 on YouTube, I timed the widest part of the ship that rotates, using the line markings as a reference. The video was long enough to time 1/4 of a full rotation at about 7 seconds....times 4 for 28 secondsl......rounded off I figured 30 seconds or 2 RPM. I calculated the scale of the B5 to the model which came to about 1:20,000. Using the scale numbers as a ballpark figure, I calculated the rpm to be like you said, that of the speed of a clock. You could probably watch grass grow faster than trying to see the model rotate. If I may suggest, I would rotate the model at 2 rpm......which should make it look about the same as the television B5. Not sure if that's what you were looking for, but I thought I would offer the suggestion.

[QuincySapien]

Hey Guys,

made some calculations (had get out long time buried memories of my astronomy-studies) hope I didn´t make too many mistakes (also with the english terminology).

Gravitational Force: Fg=m*g
Centrifugalforce: Fc=m*w²*r (w being the radial speed)

To get artificial gravity both have to be the same:

Fg = Fc
=> m*g = m*w²*r
=> g=w²*r
=> w²=g/r
=> w= SQR(g/r)

g=9,81 m/s², r=420m (that´s what I found in the net)

=> w = 0,1528304

Radial speed is also defined by:

w= 2PI/T (T being the Time for one turn)

=> T=2PI / w = 2PI/0,1528304 = 6,362/0,1528304
=> T = 41,11Seconds

If the data I found was correct and I didn´t make too many mistakes, The station needs about 40 Seconds per turn.

Greetings

Quincy

[tetsujin]

If the data I found was correct and I didn´t make too many mistakes, The station needs about 40 Seconds per turn.

But don't forget, different parts of the station have different elevation relative to the central axis - so the station's gravity is a bit of a compromise - lesser closer to the central axis and greater out toward the lowest levels, but hopefully a compromise that makes all of these environments workable for the crew. (Getting C&C to have a reasonable gravity level without over-accelerating the lower levels is the challenge...) That may account for the show's 30 second period as opposed to your calculated 40 second period...

Of course, it's just a show and all, so personally I'd just mimic the rotation from the show...

[DLMatthys]

Guys,I find this data very usefull. I've watched a few episodes recently principly to observe the graphics used in the Starfury cockpits.

I agree that it should turn faster than a sweep of the second and of a clock motor. A pinion gear from a clock motor going into a larger ring gear would be a really Slooooooow turn about its axis.

I am surprised no one has published to the web an article on how to do this! Not much about it on the Google#-o

[cygaramond]

This whole project sounds great, and I so want to do this myself now. Time to start trolling ebay for a kit I guess.

-Chad

[belkin321]

or you could put a variable resistor in the circuit and adjust it to your liking,

[Cygnus_X-1]

So far all I've done with my B-5's is fit them with the vibrator motors like I did with my ST First Contact Phoenix toy.

[DLMatthys]

I wonder how fast they turn Cygnus? What device did it come form?
The motor... I want to fix to a stationary shaft...geared down and pinoned to an internal ring gear fixed to the rotating cylinder.

One or 2 items I did find at my LHS was some roller bearings used on most TRAXES RC cars. This is the perfect sized inteface for what rotates and that what does not. These will be fixed to the center shaft.

Next I must find a very small through hole slip ring 2 0r 4 contacts Google has lead up to some good options. Most sliprings are made to order and they where located overseas...It's not like there is a wharehouse here in the USA for sliprings.

Anyway....Time to draw up a to scale plan and nail down specifics and dimensions

[DLMatthys]

Update 10/19:

Now appears good news to hear that the B5 Space Station and Starfury plastic kits are making a comeback from Revell.

Motivation to motorize is more heightened!

Seriously guys... where can mini slip rings and small clock motors with low RPMs can be found from suppliers in North America? Scrap electronics from consumer product discards would be even nice.

As "Google" and "Ask" has me using all roads leading to China. I am not seeing what I need there... but they sure can make it for me.

[srspicer]

I think that there is a better solution than custom gearing. When working on toy prototypes, the trick was not to re-invent the wheel.

You can purchase motorized bases for display models and jewelry and the like. Search motorized bases.

If you locate a base or turn table, you don't need a custom ring gear. Any drive gear can be replaced with a drive wheel. At worst, I have cut a rubber band and super glued it around a drive gear. Next, you build, or turn, your ring-gear to the desired diameter. Glue a rubber band on the inside of it for a gripping surface. This has worked for me in the past.
Just my to cents.

Scott

[Lord Darth Beavis]

Don,

Maybe hit your local thrift shop, and pick up some cheap clocks. Or, as was mentioned above, go with a wheel interface, instead of a geared interface. Just a thought.

LDB

[DLMatthys]

I figure to tear into and apart some old consumer electronics for small gears and motors. Stuff like stepper motors and hopfully a mini slipring could be found in discarded VCRs, computer printers and sic drives.

The goal I have in mind is to get one going around and around well enough to do more than one and allow others to take the specs from the one prototype so the the O'Niel Cylinder could rotate on a lot more Babylon 5 Stations...sorta like a kit.

[kitty]

I guess you are looking for something like this.
http://www.conrad.nl/goto.php?artikel=242535

Unfortunately i cannot find them on the english site and the datasheet is in german.

dimensions: 23.5 mm x 15.2 mm (width x heigth)
torc: 2 Ncm
power supply 3-6V (they also have them in 1.5-3V)
reduction 487:1
11rpm at 3v, 22rpm at 6v.(free run)
approx 10mA current

no iron runningwheel( don't know what its called in english, so that is a literal translation) with 3 coils.
double action hard silver brushes.
flat guilded collector
maintenance free self lubricating sinterbearing


there also is a 916:1 version that does 6 rpm at 3V and 12 rpm at 6V.(and a 1.5-3V version of that)

These babies have a small wheel that you can put a rubber ring around to press against a ring and make it turn.

I used those ages ago to drive a radar dish on a ship model and a ferriswheel and merry-go-round model i made for a train enthousiast.
They run extremely silent.

[b5ranger99]

Just a comment on the calculations, one of my B5 references mentions that the maximum gravity on B5 was .9 earth (in the areas normally inhabited, not the outer limit of the hull). The difference in diameter and max g would help explain the difference in rotation speed.

(Interesting that it appears "down below" is toward the "outside" of the station.)

[kitty]

(Interesting that it appears "down below" is toward the "outside" of the station.)

That is logical, since the centrifugal forces of the rotation would be directed outward so things are actualy being hurled outward which would make the inside of the outerwall apear to pull all objects (downward in relation to people standing)

[RickP]

Hi,

I just got a Babylon 5 from eBay and was wondering if someone build a rotating version yet?

regards,
Rick

[DLMatthys]

I plan to have one built both lighted and rotating. The last item I found to make it glow and roll is a micro sized, 4 contact slip ring with center rotation.

So far I located roller bearings, a slow geared can motor, nano sized white LEDs and a stationary shaft and tubes the holds it all together within. A internal ring gear would have to be drawn up and fabricated by machine or a laser cutter.

All this is still on the drawing board. I lost my enthusiasum for it when Revell wimped out on production after the anounced it last year at a big trade show.

Hopefully the German Revell can step up and re-issue it like they did for USS Voyager and the Maquis Raider. Gutt yah?

[Chacal]

Instead of racking our brains with slip rings and power transmission, why not have the rotating section's lights powered by a battery? An inconspicuous battery compartment 'hatch' should be easier to make than a slip ring.

Or...

Put the LEDs on the stationary portion, with focusing lenses shining the light onto the end of bundled FOs which would then take the light to the outer surface of the model. The end of the bundle is located at the rotation axis, so the light is constant. For flashing lights, some fibers can be located on the edge of the spinning section, with as many LEDs around the edge as needed (if the flashing is to be at every 5 seconds, and the cylinder rotates at 0.5 RPM, there should be 6 LEDs around the rim—0.5 RPM=1 rot/30sec; 5sec/30sec=6).

[RickP]

Put the LEDs on the stationary portion, with focusing lenses shining the light onto the end of bundled FOs which would then take the light to the outer surface of the model. The end of the bundle is located at the rotation axis, so the light is constant. For flashing lights, some fibers can be located on the edge of the spinning section, with as many LEDs around the edge as needed (if the flashing is to be at every 5 seconds, and the cylinder rotates at 0.5 RPM, there should be 6 LEDs around the rim—0.5 RPM=1 rot/30sec; 5sec/30sec=6).

Funny, I had exactly the same idea this morning :-) - I don't think I'll need a focusing lense, just a small piece of tube around the LED and the FO bundle to prevent light leaks,

I also ordered some flexible solarcells from http://www.flexsolarcells.com and got them yesterday. My plan is to fit the solar cells into the B5 solar panels, load some batteries or goldcaps and use these to drive the motor and one or two leds for the fo.

A few experiments with the solar cells are promising. I got the ones that are 4.5x1.0" and the deliver pretty stable 3V and about 10mA in room light per piece. I hope they still work if the're being cut.

[DLMatthys]

Instead of racking our brains with slip rings and power transmission,....

Oh I'm all done thinking about it...Next step is to do it and find the time to do so. Confident that I got the right elements available to adapt these devices to the project.