Fluoresent Lights for Models?

nightwing4532 · Post by **nightwing4532** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:59 pm

Anyone ever used fluorescents to light up a model? I'm thinking of using them on my PL refit, but not sure if it's even possible, and if possible how to install them. Any ideas?

Darkov · Post by **Darkov** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:04 pm

There was an article a long time ago in FSM on lighting the ETRL Enterprise D with flourescent lights. You had to canibalize some flourescent flashlights. Each tube required it's own mini ballast if I remember correctly. LED's were not as readily available back then...or at least not as cheap.
So to answer your question.....YES it can be done. But remember Flourescent tubes have a shorter life span than LED's and they do generate heat. So if at all possible just go the LED route.

What are you building by the way that would require flourescent tubes?

Pete

jwrjr · Post by **jwrjr** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:31 pm

The one time I cannibalized a fluorescent lantern for a model (a Millenium Falcon), it worked fine for a while. But after leaving it dark for an extended period, the tube wouldn't light. I have 2 blue Cold Cathode Fluorescent Tubes in my refit (one per nacelle). They work well.

nightwing4532 · Post by **nightwing4532** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:12 am

How did you install the tubes in the nacelles though?

Umi_Ryuzuki · Post by **Umi_Ryuzuki** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:50 pm

If you hunt long enough on Frys, you can find the JKL lamps and ballast/drivers

lamps are 3.2mm x 100mm up to 3.2mm x 228mm
FRYS.com #: 1343346
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/134334 ... IN_RSLT_PG
FRYS.com #: 1343466
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/134346 ... IN_RSLT_PG
FRYS.com #: 1343476
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/134347 ... IN_RSLT_PG

FRYS.com #: 1343566
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/134356 ... IN_RSLT_PG

FRYS.com #: 1343576
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/134357 ... IN_RSLT_PG

Typical output of the drivers are 150-500volts

jwrjr · Post by **jwrjr** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:23 pm

How did I mount them? I used silicone rubber to glue them to the plastic 'bulkheads'. But be sure to not mount them any closer to the plastic 'sides' than you have to. They don't get that hot. But there's no point in taking unnecessary chances.
Some car parts stores carry tube + power pack kits. But the best place can be stores carrying kits for lighting computer cases. In both cases, they will run on 12 volts.

se5022 · Post by **se5022** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:33 am

I used a 6inch fluorescent tube in an NX-01. I cannibalized one of those undercabinet lights and installed it in the saucer section. I kept the switch in the "on" position and fed it the appropriate amount of voltage. The result was a good, even flow of light.

Thomas E. Johnson · Post by **Thomas E. Johnson** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:44 pm

Can CCFL's have their lifespan increased if you slighty under volt the driver boards?

nightwing4532 · Post by **nightwing4532** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:41 pm

jwrjr wrote: Some car parts stores carry tube + power pack kits. But the best place can be stores carrying kits for lighting computer cases. In both cases, they will run on 12 volts.

Interesting, hadn't really thought of the cold cathode lighting. Since I have literrally no experience with electronics, is there anyplace you could recommend I can read a step by step installation on them since I'm sure they're designed to plug into a computer power source, as opposed to some other external power source?

jwrjr · Post by **jwrjr** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:24 pm

Sorry, but I don't know of any step-by-step instructions. Maybe somebody really good at this should write a book on it. In any case the part to remember when you cut off the computer power connector is that black=ground and the remaining wire, yellow, is +12 volts.

Chacal · Post by **Chacal** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:21 pm

As Darkov states, the article on lighting the "D" with fluorescent lights was only done like that because back then there were only red, green and yellow LEDs. With white and blue LEDs as we have today, and running them with proper resistors, they can theoretically last forever, which is not the case with fluorescent lights. They WILL burn out eventually. If you can devise a way to make the bulbs accessible without having to crack the nacelles open, kudos. If not, i'd suggest LEDs.

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:41 pm

The brightness of Fluorescent tubes are countrolled by the frequency of the driver, so under voltaging the driver board wont' necessarily save any life on the tube. After a year, a fews hours on here and there and 2 days at wonerdfest the 4 inch tubes we got out the battery/wallwort light sticks are noticeably dimmer

http://www.kc6sye.com/techmages_5_11_04.html
http://www.kc6sye.com/techmages_5_10_04.html

Some Blue EL wire was used too, pluging the connector for this into the driver board is were I usually got shocked.
http://www.kc6sye.com/techmages_5_12_04.html

nightwing4532 · Post by **nightwing4532** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:50 pm

how would you wire a circuit that contains both LEDs, and CCFLs? I'm trying to light the PL Refit, and plan on using the ccfls for the larger areas like the nacelles, and inside the saucer for windows, but leds for just about anything else.

jwrjr · Post by **jwrjr** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:25 pm

Using leds and CCFLs on the same power supply isn't a problem as long as you a. choose the led resistors for a 12 volt supply and b. make sure that the 12 volt supply has enough current capacity to run everything.

MillenniumFalsehood · Post by **MillenniumFalsehood** » Thu May 03, 2007 3:06 pm

Why would you use flourescents instead of CCFLs? Do they last longer or something?

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Thu May 03, 2007 4:05 pm

No reason in particular. CCFLs typically are wired to their ballast, so changing them if your model is rigged to allow changing them is more difficult. You don't want to cut the wire and solder the new one in. The high voltages on these devices require a bit more electircal isolation than LED wiring.

http://www.kc6sye.com/images/images_11_ ... wiring.jpg
http://www.kc6sye.com/images/images_11_ ... ocking.jpg

The guys are grinning 'casue I got shocked off the EL rope driver when I plugged in the wire harness. I jumped but more out of being startled then hurt.

jwrjr · Post by **jwrjr** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:17 pm

First, CCFL = Cold Cathode FLuorescent. There are two reasons for using them rather than cannibalizing a lantern. First, CCFLs genreally run 1/8" in diameter while lantern tubes are around 3/4". You can put CCFLs in places you can't put lantern tubes. Secondly, My experience is that lantern tubes get hard-to-start when not run for a while. CCFLs are somewhat the same, but not nearly as bad. (I had to trash a Falcon when the engine wouldn't start. Boo!)

WedgeCharlotte · Post by **WedgeCharlotte** » Wed May 23, 2007 9:24 am

Does anyone know why CCFL inverters have 2 output connectors but only one ever seems to work? I am using quite a few CCFLs and I would like to cut down on the parts count...

Scott Hasty · Post by **Scott Hasty** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:52 pm

Chacal wrote:As Darkov states, the article on lighting the "D" with fluorescent lights was only done like that because back then there were only red, green and yellow LEDs. With white and blue LEDs as we have today, and running them with proper resistors, they can theoretically last forever, which is not the case with fluorescent lights. They WILL burn out eventually. If you can devise a way to make the bulbs accessible without having to crack the nacelles open, kudos. If not, i'd suggest LEDs.

Like this?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/s_ ... tstrip.jpg

Early, dirty, test:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/s_hasty/Test.jpg

I stay away from El sheet, CCFL and EL wire because of it and its supporting electronics' limited lifespan. True, if you use a smaller current limiting resistor you risk shortening the LED's span. BUT, It's still a HECk of a lot longer than the alternative.

Scottie

BTW, the LED's in the pics were running at 20mA which is usually the middle to top end for LED's.

WedgeCharlotte · Post by **WedgeCharlotte** » Wed May 30, 2007 7:18 pm

I found that you can put 2 of the smaller CCFLs together on one driver - but not 2 of the big ones, and not one and one.

Works for me!

Thomas E. Johnson · Post by **Thomas E. Johnson** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:52 am

Anyone know if you can safely power one CCFL using a driver board that was ment to drive 2 CCFLs, with no negative effects on the one CCFL or its life span?

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:33 am

Off hand I would say no. If there are separate driver circuits you might be ok, accpet the driver for the missing CFL will be running 'hot' as CFLs require a high voltage startup jolt to get the waveicals going. If the circuit is one driver and the CFLS are hooked in serial I'll bet it wont fire the tube since the other connection in the daisy chian is missing. If they are hooked up parallel then the one tube will be getting an extra hard jolt when starting and like the 12 inch driver board I had the 4 inch tube will run hot. 2 tubes in series didn't get nearly as hot, I left them running on the floor to see if there was any noticeable heat and there wasn't. Running it for a few minuets at the club meeting with one tube, and the cold CFL was getting really warm.

http://www.kc6sye.com/techmages_10_22_05_b.html

Thomas E. Johnson · Post by **Thomas E. Johnson** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:39 am

Sparky wrote:Off hand I would say no. If there are separate driver circuits you might be ok, accpet the driver for the missing CFL will be running 'hot' as CFLs require a high voltage startup jolt to get the waveicals going. If the circuit is one driver and the CFLS are hooked in serial I'll bet it wont fire the tube since the other connection in the daisy chian is missing. If they are hooked up parallel then the one tube will be getting an extra hard jolt when starting and like the 12 inch driver board I had the 4 inch tube will run hot. 2 tubes in series didn't get nearly as hot, I left them running on the floor to see if there was any noticeable heat and there wasn't. Running it for a few minuets at the club meeting with one tube, and the cold CFL was getting really warm.

http://www.kc6sye.com/techmages_10_22_05_b.html

Well, the sigle tube fires up ok, and isn't any brighter, or hotter than 2 tubes being fed from a dual driver board.

WedgeCharlotte · Post by **WedgeCharlotte** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:31 am

They also ship all the tubes I've bought with a dual connector inverter.

Thomas E. Johnson · Post by **Thomas E. Johnson** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:27 pm

WedgeCharlotte wrote:They also ship all the tubes I've bought with a dual connector inverter.

Then it should be ok then, I will guess.