Weld Beads 48th Scale?

Wug · Post by **Wug** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:38 pm

Hi,

I'd like to create 1/48th scale weld beads around half a millimeter across. I intended to use Aves in this technique.

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op= ... 220&page=1

A test on scrap plastic revealed the difficulty of rolling the Aves thin enough. The thin rolls were difficult to position accurately and had trouble adhering to the model. However the technique looks promising for 1/20th scale MaK.

If the Archer weld decals weren't fifteen dollars a sheet I'd use them although I already scribed in alignment lines.

I'm not sure how the stretched sprue technique will work since some of the model is Aves. Also, I'm not neat enough to keep from messing up the area around the sprue.

I doubt I can create a thin regular line of solvent based putty.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Mike

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:35 pm

You can try some fine styrene softened with liquid cement.

kenlilly106 · Post by **kenlilly106** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:03 pm

Stretched sprue coated in liquid cement should be sticky enough to stay on the model, even over the Aves providing you don't mask over it. To make sure it stays down I'd brush some Future over it after the cement dries.

In that scale a thin raised bead would look fine, maybe some weathering to show where paint had worn off it or painting it to represent a heated metal look.

Ken

Johnnycrash · Post by **Johnnycrash** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:59 pm

Arche Fine Transfers

seam-filler · Post by **seam-filler** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:39 am

I know the AVES officianados will call for me being banned from the forum, but this is one occasion where Milliput has the edge over AVES.

Because it is quite a lot stiffer than AVES it can be rolled a lot thinner. When warm it is also opretty sticky so it will tend to stcik to the model. I have done weld seams less than 1/2mm with no real trouble this way.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:19 am

And for even finer, lay down a thin bead of Squadron. For some things. Tho' I recently did some Aves weld beads about 1 to 1.5 mm wide.

Wug · Post by **Wug** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:14 pm

Thanks Everybody,

kenlilly106

I'll test the stretched sprue.

Johnnycrash

Fifteen bucks a sheet and shipping?

seam-filler

The modeler on Armorama used Milliput. My last package of Milliput dried out years ago.

Kylwell

How do you form beads of Squadron that thin? Making 1.5 mm Aves beads seems possible particularly if they don't need to be straight.

Thanks again,

Mike

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:30 pm

With Squadron (green) you kinda of trowel a thin line down with a #11 blade, working in small sections so you can texture it with a fine tube to get a 'stack of coins' look.

With Aves, it's a matter of mashing a thin line, then using a tube dipped in water/alcohol/safety fluid work work down the line. You'll end up with some Aves mashed out to the sides, just use a hobby knife to remove the excess.

Rogviler · Post by **Rogviler** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:03 pm

FYI, Mighty Putty and Kneadatite (greenstuff) will roll that thin and are finely grained.

Just for future reference.

-Rog

Johnnycrash · Post by **Johnnycrash** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:16 pm

Wug wrote:Fifteen bucks a sheet and shipping?

Yes. But... You do get almost 22' (that's feet people) of welds. That's less than a $1 a foot.

karim · Post by **karim** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:19 pm

I'd try laying down a bead of black CA with a fine applicator nozzle.

Wug · Post by **Wug** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:07 pm

Thanks Kylwell,

I don't think texturing the beads will be a problem. The difficulty is making straight lines. I'd like to use Dymo tape but everything that will stick to the model will stick to it. I'll try masking with rubber bands.

Thanks Rogviler,

Are those the putties used by gaming sculptors?

Thanks Johnnycrash,

Those decals sound more attractive.

Thanks karim,

CA seems too unforgiving.

Thanks everyone,

Mike

Rogviler · Post by **Rogviler** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:18 pm

Kneadatite is used by gaming sculpters in combination with Miilliput (the two can even be mixed when wet). It's tough to find sometimes. I ended up getting some from an eBay-based gaming supplier.

Mighty Putty is the stuff advertised on TV as being able to do all kinds of extraordinary things, but don't buy it from the TV ad, it's way more expensive. The cheapest I found is at Target where you get 3 tubes for $9.99. They might have it at Wal Mart, but I don't shop there so I don't know.

Kneadatite is sticky and stretchy, whereas Milliput is more claylike. Mighty Putty is somewhere in between, though it's closer to Milliput I'd say.

-Rog

Wug · Post by **Wug** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:02 am

Thanks Rogviler,

I'll keep an eye out for Mighty Putty

Mike

Spacephrawg · Post by **Spacephrawg** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:21 pm

Can you guys post reference pictures of what these weld beads look like in real life?

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:27 pm

Spacephrawg wrote:Can you guys post reference pictures of what these weld beads look like in real life?

All depends on the type of welding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_tungsten_arc_welding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig_welding

kenlilly106 · Post by **kenlilly106** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:03 pm

As someone who's spent a fair part of his professional career around welding, nearly all real life welds would look like a grayish-silver line at 1/48 scale distances.

I will say that I've seen some great work on tanks in 1/35 where the weld bead was textured and weathered so it appeared newer than the 'plates,' which would be accurate if one welded together some already rusted plates.

Ken

Spacephrawg · Post by **Spacephrawg** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:56 pm

kenlilly106 wrote:As someone who's spent a fair part of his professional career around welding, nearly all real life welds would look like a grayish-silver line at 1/48 scale distances.

I will say that I've seen some great work on tanks in 1/35 where the weld bead was textured and weathered so it appeared newer than the 'plates,' which would be accurate if one welded together some already rusted plates.

Ken

Do you have an pics of 1/35th scale model welding?

kenlilly106 · Post by **kenlilly106** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:23 am

The pictures I saw were in Tamiya Model Magazine, I'd have to dig out the issue to see what number it was.

Basically what the guy did was to paint and weather the plates so they would look like steel plates that had been exposed to the weather and had a nice rusty look to them, not bubbly or flaky rust, the tight rust you get after a few weeks exposure.
Then he painted the weld beads a metallic color and washed them with a rusty brown mixture so they looked like they were starting to rust down in the corners, which is accurate for a new weld that's been exposed to the weather.

I meant to add that I think at 1/35 scale distances the weld texture would be invisible.

Ken

seam-filler · Post by **seam-filler** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:59 am

Quite frankly, I'd go with decals in 1/48th. Most welding will never be more than about an inch wide - bigger than that and you'll either burn away all the material you're welding or you have to have special pre and post-heat treatment.... This ends up with a scale width a shade over 1/2 a millimetre. Also, that's just the width of the weld - the depth of the weld (the height it sticks up above the plate) sure isn't going to be any more that 1/8 inch - barely notceable when scaled down to 1/48th. And most factory welds get ground down anyway.

Jonas Calhoun · Post by **Jonas Calhoun** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:39 pm

I've seen pretty realistic results with lead wire stuffed in then textured with a #11 blade...

Dan

Mark Yungblut · Post by **Mark Yungblut** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:27 pm

Go get some ProCreate putty from the SM store.

http://www.starshipmodeler.biz/index.cf ... ct_ID=1015

Many of the gaming mini sculptors are switching to this stuff. AND it will harden no matter what the proprtions used.

Also Aves will work just fine you just need to practice to get thin consistent beads. to activate the stickiness get it in place and then burs with a very soft small brush and alcohol.

Cheers,

Mark

seam-filler · Post by **seam-filler** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:02 am

Jonas Calhoun wrote:I've seen pretty realistic results with lead wire stuffed in then textured with a #11 blade...

Dan

Yes, in 1/35th or bigger. As I said earlier, in 1/48th any weld is going to be virtually smooth to be realistic.

Looking at 1/48th model from a foot away is like standing 48 feet from the full-size object - at this range welds are subtle variations in the plate, if they are visible at all. Again, most factory welds are ground back to the same level as the joined plates. After all, welding is a means of joining two peices of similar metal together and most military builders don't even want you to know where the weld is because either side of a weld is a potential weak spot (the heat affected zone).

Now, if you're trying to replicate a field repair, then, yes, the thin sausage of AVES or Milliput will work (Milliput is stiiffer than AVES so can be easier to roll a thin sausage). But you should then think about having bare metal either side of the weld (about 3 scale inches either side at least), some subtle scorching immediately either side of the bead, and some heat effects (bronze, blue and indigo) showing the heat affected zone. That would look sweet.