Hover tank challenge

HWR MKII · Post by **HWR MKII** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:23 am

Hover tanks seem to be pretty popular on here but theres always one thing that has made me wonder. Aside from maybe 2 examples i can think of (one was a floating concrete brick) All of them are based on previously existing tank chassis, hulls and turrets. Be it Merkava, Leopard, Abrams or even T-72.

I propose a friendly challenge. Bash together a hover tank. It can be from an already existing book or game design or something of your own imagination. ONE RULE! You CANNOT use a already existing tank kit off the shelf for the main hull components. Some of you may find this limiting others may find it exciting. I propose it as a friendly challenge to get the gears going and thinking outside the box. You can use AFV and tank parts for greeblie details but the overall shape and form cannot look like a Merkava, Leopard.....so on and so forth.

This isnt a contest so no deadlines or anything. Just want to see what you guys can pop out with a little friendly motivation.

seam-filler · Post by **seam-filler** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:49 am

One thing that has always bugged me about hover tanks... What about recoil?

OK - you could sit the thing down and fire, but just try firing on the move and you'd find how hard it it to keep on course.

And there's another thing when thinking of a design - directional propulsion. Unless you 'vector' some of your downward thrust you would have to have a separate device for moving you forward (or backwards or sideways). This would imply some sort of jets or props, both of which would be terribky prone to attack.

Even where the hover thrust comes out would be susceptible to attack. OK, a mine might not take out your axles, tracks and whels but a lot of shrapnel will shoot up into the exhaust vents.

I think most of the hover tanks I've seen look cool, but the idea just doesn't add up for me.

HWR MKII · Post by **HWR MKII** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:00 am

How it works is no matter. Thats a debate for another thread. (We have had them before) Just a cool looking model is all thats needed. Not asking your opinion of the idea of a hovertank if it were real

Though i do have an answer for the recoile issue. Ever heard of the 105 recoilless? Largely unused now but a nice 105mm that could mount on the back of light vehicles. These days its used for clearing avalanche areas. Progress the idea of this weapon for your vehicle if you like.

DEC · Post by **DEC** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:36 am

i'M IN!

HWR MKII Considering how much we talk tanks I don't know why you've never suggested this before.

Maybe One Zero could officalise this by setting it up on the special boards as a challenge? I can see it being a runner?

So flesh out the details, when to be complete? how to be revealed etc.

And I recall the pages of discussion on the possibilities of Hover tanks before. all good stuff. Are you asking we on porpose don't discuss hypotheticalls? Shame as that is fun too.

Can't wait to see your stuff ( and I still havn't forgoten that hover tank in yellow and black from our meet about 4 years ago- you REALLY need to post it in the gallery!)

Right forget everything on the to do pile- i'm off to the shed!

DEC

Zen-Builder · Post by **Zen-Builder** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:52 am

REcalling the old Battlet4ch game, I think many of the tqanks solely used Energy weapons or guass weapons(none of which have recoil).

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page

I think same held true for "Renegade Legion" which also had many hover-tanks.

HTH.

photoguy · Post by **photoguy** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:37 am

I've got my guns picked out of the spares box! This could be massive....

ajmadison · Post by **ajmadison** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:12 am

I had to go back to my first encounter with a Hovertank, namely, _Hammer's_Slammers_ by David Drake. As a former military man, I believe he thought the entire weapon system through, so it all works.

Drake solves the recoil problem using two "technologies." First, he eliminates the recoil energy due to propellant (aka gunpowder) completely, by using electromagnetic propulsion. In current technology, an E-M railgun. Secondly, he reduces the amount of thrown projectile mass as much as possible, by reducing the loss of conversion from mass into energy as much as possible, because his weapon fires as pure a form of energy possible w/o resorting to a particle beam, that is copper atom plasma. In Drake's terminology, I'm talking about the "Powergun."

Now, onto the weapon platform, that is the Hovertank. Admittedly, lifting 170 tons into the air and propelling it forward, with any kind of reasonable minimum time between re-fueling (say 1 hour at minimum) requires an extremely efficient power plant and/or fuel density, but its sci-fi, so there is that out. Drakes first iterations of the hovertanks make clear mention of using ducted fans (but also includes air cushion configurations as well). It was the ducted fan versions that originally caught my eye. But ducted fans are vulnerable to FOD and ingesting anti-hovertank munitions, so I can see why Drake shifted towards the air cushion arrangements.

Wish I had the time to participate in this effort. I loved the cover art for the first edition of Hammer's Slammers.

Blappy · Post by **Blappy** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:35 am

seam-filler wrote:One thing that has always bugged me about hover tanks... What about recoil?

You're assuming they are firing a projectile. The Super Panzers in the David Drake books used a "Powergun" that converted a plastic matrix disc with embedded copper into a beam of pure energy. Voila! No recoil.

A Rail gun (Linear acceleration of the projectile) would have minimal recoil as well.

I'd love to play this game and will if I can find the time.

Dr. Yo · Post by **Dr. Yo** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:10 pm

Something like this?

It uses the concept of the S-tank, but its all from sheet styrene and
the spares boxes.

Some of the best thinking I ever ran across on the subject of Hover
tanks and their gravitic descendants was in the pages of the old
Traveller supplement, Mercenary.

NNYGamer · Post by **NNYGamer** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:28 pm

I'm sure if you have hover technology you have some way to overcome recoil. I have someplace packed away an old WWII 1/72? scale tank I was converting to hover ages ago. I might be able to dig it out to finish it.

blitzspear · Post by **blitzspear** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:36 pm

What sort of time frame are we talking here? I'm about to embark on a Hover/AntiGrav tank for another Group build type thing so could do it for both. Ive had a plan for a Hover tank for the alternative armour Group build on SFM:UK but decided to do a walker as i thought there would be a lot of others going down the hover route. So far everyone has gone for a walker

. And i've still got a hover tank idea trying to get out. Think mine will be using an upscaled version of the Willygun from the Sten books as i'm in the middle of reading them "again". A willy gun btw fires a 2mm ball of Anti matter enclosed in a ball of imperium X metal that travels along a lazer beam to it's target. AM2 being from another reality exsplodes on contact with our reality hence the imperium X to contain it

Also can i use Pingpong balls on my build

and can i start right away or are we setting a start date?

Blitz

HWR MKII · Post by **HWR MKII** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:16 pm

NNYGamer wrote:I'm sure if you have hover technology you have some way to overcome recoil. I have someplace packed away an old WWII 1/72? scale tank I was converting to hover ages ago. I might be able to dig it out to finish it.

AH But that goes against the one rule i have for this. No use of any preexisting tank hulls. If you can look at it and tell the base tank it was made from it kills the purpose. This is to try to stretch what everyone can do. Im working on one now. The hull was completely formed from styrene and modeling board.

As far as time frame it can be like the post apocalyptic challenge or any other. No real time limit. just have fun. I know theres the Just glue it contest going on now so some of you are working on things for that.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:32 pm

Somewhere I've got a number of grav-tank designs, large flat plates, shold be easy enough to mock-up.

Just as soon as I finish my Fatty.

Blappy · Post by **Blappy** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:44 pm

Kylwell wrote:
Just as soon as I finish my Fatty.

Geez! Just how big IS that Fatty that you're STILL "working on it"?

Splatcat · Post by **Splatcat** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:26 pm

The funny thing about hover tanks is that they seem intriguing just because they are supposedly impossible. Lots of stuff to work with in this concept.
As for pre-existing hulls and designs. I was always amazed that no one ever tried to make a kit of the hover tanks from the old Southern Cross/Robotech cartoon.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:34 pm

Blappy wrote:
Kylwell wrote:
Just as soon as I finish my Fatty.
Geez! Just how big IS that Fatty that you're STILL "working on it"?

About 8 inches.

Tough getting smoke through it...

PetarB · Post by **PetarB** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:53 pm

Wow, I used to play Renegade Legion back in the day... lots of hovertanks there! I like the idea of not using an existing kit. Looking forwards to seeing what people bring to the table!

shadowbeast · Post by **shadowbeast** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:37 pm

On TMP there are people who make hovertanks out of peripherals (eg. the Mark 1 and 2 Mouse Tanks!)
If I do any they will be really small.

Cenebar · Post by **Cenebar** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:11 am

This goes along with my "Why Are Somethings Just Not Made?" thread on this forum. Yeah, WHERE are the hovertanks and anti-grav vehicles?

Anyway, a friend and I have been asking the same thing years ago so I kitbashed a hovertank using spare parts. I'm not sure if I'll enter this time as I have three HTs already...

http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery1 ... eracno.htm

Buzzbomb · Post by **Buzzbomb** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:17 am

in the words of a late TV Advertiser down here in Aussie, Big Kev,
"I'm excited!!!"

Yep I can do that..
Providing time frame is not important.

Is the only proviso not kit hull basis ?
So other bits from AFV kits can be used as greeblies and detail then.

Brian T

DarKev · Post by **DarKev** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:56 am

Hello All

There is a RPG Game System called Heavy Gear (produced by Dream Pod 9 DP-9) that has a few rather interesting Hover Tank designs. Some here might remember the two PC games (Heavy Gear I and II) that were out in the Win95/98 era. Hover tanks were figured in HG-2 and were rather effective if one was not good at fighting PC Game AIs. I have attached below a link to the DP-9 site showing some Box Art.

Darkev

http://store.dp9.com/advanced_search_re ... nk&x=0&y=0

Dr. Yo · Post by **Dr. Yo** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:26 am

This goes along with my "Why Are Somethings Just Not Made?" thread on this forum. Yeah, WHERE are the hovertanks and anti-grav vehicles?

Star Wars has produced a couple-the Snow Speeder being the most
famous example, the Trade Fed tank being another. Tanks having
larger crews may be part of the reason they're less popular as 'hero'
vehicles.

There was an SF boardgame released in the 1980s-

Grav Armor

that has some nice designs, and interesting concepts as well.

Post by **onezero** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:49 am

DEC wrote: Maybe One Zero could officalise this by setting it up on the special boards as a challenge? I can see it being a runner?

I could give this it's own special challenge forum, I suppose

Scotaidh · Post by **Scotaidh** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:36 pm

I have got to do this one ... which means I really need to get off my duff and finish the Off-Hand Model. I get about an hour each evening on it, until I get to that "It's wet and needs to dry" stage ... but I digress.

See, I've been collecting Tilt/Swivels from the local transfer station. I found out they're made of very glue-able plastic, they're white and almond and black and ... well, I guess that's about it; they have a great variety of shapes - I've even found some tear-drop ones! - and they're free ... so I have about a ... um.... dozen or so.

Are we allowed to use tank parts for things like turrets/guns?

Lonnie Sweet · Post by **Lonnie Sweet** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:21 pm

I'd love to jump on board with this as well. I've been toying with a design for a while now.

If there's a poll option on this challenge, I'd love to arrange a $20 gift certificate through the SSM store for the tank with the most votes (assuming 1-0 allows it).

HWR MKII · Post by **HWR MKII** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:25 pm

To a few questions. Yes you can use tank bits as greeblies. However no you cannot use the hull or turret from an already existing tank model. The overall shape must be unique and not readily identifiable as coming from another AFV. If John wants to give this a section for the public to post in and so posts dont get lost by quick auto prune that would be a plus.

DEC · Post by **DEC** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:32 pm

Hello John,
I think it may be a good idea, I'd expect this thread to run with the same longevity as the Post apoc Car build.

However I defer to HWR MkII as this is his baby.

So far I have come to the following conclusion, If I really think about a hover tank design then form will follow function, and it will not be so sexy!. However for fun and keeping to HWR MkII original point- that non- AFV basis to be used to creaate a model, My first build is going to be all about the look, still respecting the need for powerful lift engines, vectoring, and a weapon that looks tank like, but paying lip service to the fact that it would probably be far to heavy if real.

DEC

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:37 pm

HWR MKII wrote:To a few questions. Yes you can use tank bits as greeblies. However no you cannot use the hull or turret from an already existing tank model. The overall shape must be unique and not readily identifiable as coming from another AFV. If John wants to give this a section for the public to post in and so posts dont get lost by quick auto prune that would be a plus.

But would using the hull as a turret be ok

HWR MKII · Post by **HWR MKII** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:39 pm

no. though i have done that on a Hover tank in the past myself.

DEC · Post by **DEC** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:40 pm

Plus,
if "Hover tanks" did get a forum on the special boards, then a thread on talking about the "thereticals of Hover tank design and use" could be set up that doesn't hijack the build challenge.

I recall HT chat ran to many pages before as did Heer 46 and panzer development, so clearly there is some interest?

Sorry - do i sound pushy?

regards all
DEC