Airbrushing and spray booths

[jdthird]

I'm not interested at this point in making my own booth, so I've been looking around online for booths to buy.
I've got a pile of fine molds star wars models to do, and an assortment of other starships as well. I haven't built models since I was a kid, and back then (70's) I didn't have an airbrush.
I see all the warnings about not using flammable products with these booths since they don't have sealed motors.

My question, though, is this - are all materials I'd use for painting starships flammable? Or are there paints and such that would not be a danger? Since I'm just getting back into this after all these years, I don't want to dump four or five hundred bucks into a spray booth only to find that I don't have the patience or time to do modeling anymore. I've found several booths under $200 that look like they'd work, but they're all the ones that warn about flammable material.

Alternatively, I could always try to replace the motor in whatever I get with something suitable, but since I've never done airbrushing before, I don't know if this is just a blanket fact that everything I'd use would be flammable, or if I would be able to find suitable materials without the danger.

Thanks for any information. Was planning on starting out with a bunch of work on paper and such to get at least a little feel for the brush, then eventually move to a Revell Millennium Falcon that I won't mind using as my trainer model before moving to the Fine Molds versions...

And sorry about yet *another* post about spray booths, but seems most of the ones I've found talk about building them and such, not about paint options for them.

[Lt. Z0mBe]

Good questions as it can be a biot hazardous in a confined space without a sealed motor.

A lot of your acrylics are not flammable, being more ammonia and water based instead of alcohol. That doesn't mean they don't contain isopropanol or methanol in small amounts, it's just really hard to burn them.

That being said, I would imagine it's feasible to get some of the Tamiya paints to burn, as they *seem* to have a higher percentage of iso or some other alcohol based on smell and taste. Put their vapors in a closed area, under pressure and they could, maybe combust.

The thing that will get you, though, is your thinners, if ever anything would. Your thinners will be either lacquer thinner(acetone, sometimes MEK, and xylene) for lacquers and enamels (sometimes), 90-percent isopropyl alcohol, denatured alcohol (also known as methylated spirits), mineral spirits, turpentine, and good old paint thinner (mineral spirits plus conditioners). Spray cans contain some of this stuff in varying amounts too, so plan accordingly.

I hope this helps a bit.

Kenny

[jdthird]

Thanks for the info. What is construed as a confined space? Summertime is easy since I had planned on being probably in my garage - nice big garage with nothing but my tiny smart car in it, which would be out in the drive when I did this anyway. With the way the prevailing winds are in this area and the direction my garage door faces, the garage doesn't get any gusts in it.

Winter would be my concern, and had figured on being probably in the basement, with the booth vented outside, either through a window or through a Y tap into my vent exhaust if the snow made the window exit problematic.

Is it more dangerous from the buildup if you're not venting, or is it simply dangerous in any concentration, so even just having the fan running while painting something that's vented immediately outside is still enough of a fire risk?

[Jonas Calhoun]

I've only heard anecdotal evidence of a spray booth explosion with hobby paints--one story that I haven't been able to verify. I's not out of the realm of impossibility, although I think it's pretty low.

That said, I bought myself a booth that has a squirrel cage fan on it, so the motor is not in the stream of paint fumes. It cost a bit more than a normal bathroom exhaust fan, but the booth and fan was under $200 on ebay.

And don't vent to the furnace--the particulate and such could fall down in to the combustion chamber, and nobody wants that. And it's a heck of a code violation...

Dan

[Lt. Z0mBe]

Thanks for the info. What is construed as a confined space? Summertime is easy since I had planned on being probably in my garage - nice big garage with nothing but my tiny smart car in it, which would be out in the drive when I did this anyway. With the way the prevailing winds are in this area and the direction my garage door faces, the garage doesn't get any gusts in it.

Winter would be my concern, and had figured on being probably in the basement, with the booth vented outside, either through a window or through a Y tap into my vent exhaust if the snow made the window exit problematic.

Is it more dangerous from the buildup if you're not venting, or is it simply dangerous in any concentration, so even just having the fan running while painting something that's vented immediately outside is still enough of a fire risk?

I'm no physician. This is purely anecdotal. I, personally have only had one problem shooting anything from an airbrush in my life. I was shooting Future into my booth, and forgot to turn the fan on. For whatever reason, I inhaled a big lungful. My lungs "itched" for a few days, then I got a chest cold, followed by two days in the hospital with pneumonia. Note: this is association, as I cannot prove a causal relationship here.

As an example as to why there's no absolute answer for you there's this: there are cements and lacquers that contain methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) and xylene, which a lot of sources say is like the devil. Other sources say the worry is blown way out of proportion, as the levels tested in rats to generate carcinogenic effects was hundreds of times what was already considered toxic. Basically, if you're concerned about it (or alcohol or ammonia), and you're painting anything more than say the size of a postage stamp (good rule of thumb I heard on youtube), fire up the fan and booth. To get uber protection, get yourself a NIOSH respirator to use with the booth. They're pretty reasonable considering what they do for you. I use mine when sanding resin.

The thing you *can* run into, and this can be something minor or it can be dangerous - and can happen whether you're airbrushing or washing dishes in your sink nightly - is you can develop allergies or sensitivities to relatively benign things like latex and ammonia or to the "heavies" like MEK and methyl chloride. Some modelers this happens to, and there are some on this board, just get mild rashes while others get the works when they react. Just use common sense and don't huff the stuff, read the labels and learn your solvents for the particular paints you're using. One thing I did back in college is get some old (oooold) automotive spraying reference manuals (no kidding, one's called Paint Theory and Application...Application!, lolol) read about the solvents, and read some MSDS sheets. This was a method the body shop guys where my Mom worked taught me for learning what I needed and how paints are actually made and work. Compare sheet to book and blammo! I'd taken a lot of chemistry and physics so it was relatively easy. Now it's easier as the MSDS stuff is on the interwebs and I am pretty sure Terry (TER-OR) has every compound memorized. Some of those guys at the shop were really old school, and knew how to paint cars with everything from crushed berries to the newer fancy polymer stuff. I can't thank them enough for their help, but I digress...

As for the spaces you're using, I'd guess you're fine if they're the size of an average bedroom or larger. Just make sure, in the case of the garage, to crack a window or the bottom of the door.

I hope this helps a bit.

Kenny

[jdthird]

I've only heard anecdotal evidence of a spray booth explosion with hobby paints--one story that I haven't been able to verify. I's not out of the realm of impossibility, although I think it's pretty low.

That said, I bought myself a booth that has a squirrel cage fan on it, so the motor is not in the stream of paint fumes. It cost a bit more than a normal bathroom exhaust fan, but the booth and fan was under $200 on ebay.

And don't vent to the furnace--the particulate and such could fall down in to the combustion chamber, and nobody wants that. And it's a heck of a code violation...

Dan

Thanks! Was talking the vent of the dryer, not furnace, and had a Y joint with a flapper to close the side not in use so should prevent particulate from going where it shouldn't. And at least now I can relax about the booths i'm looking at.

[jdthird]

As for the spaces you're using, I'd guess you're fine if they're the size of an average bedroom or larger. Just make sure, in the case of the garage, to crack a window or the bottom of the door.

I hope this helps a bit.

Kenny

Helped more than a bit. Thanks!

[Harry Joy]

I suggest trying it without the booth at first. Of all the modelers I know in the flesh, and I attend two separate clubs and hang out at a hobby shop regularly, one uses a spray booth. The only reason he does is to appease his wife. Spray booths are largely unnecessary. People seem to think that an modeler's airbrush sprays as much gas and particulate matter as an autobody shop airbrush, or as much as the old Testor's rattle cans but they don't. Not even remotely close. You'd have to directly sprays enamels or lacquers into your face for an extended period to suffer ill effects, and the mess associated with even moderate levels of brushing is very minimal.

[kenlilly106]

I'm no physician. This is purely anecdotal. I, personally have only had one problem shooting anything from an airbrush in my life. I was shooting Future into my booth, and forgot to turn the fan on. For whatever reason, I inhaled a big lungful. My lungs "itched" for a few days, then I got a chest cold, followed by two days in the hospital with pneumonia. Note: this is association, as I cannot prove a causal relationship here.

Sounds like a classic case of chemical pneumonitus.

Ken

[jdthird]

I suggest trying it without the booth at first. Of all the modelers I know in the flesh, and I attend two separate clubs and hang out at a hobby shop regularly, one uses a spray booth. The only reason he does is to appease his wife. Spray booths are largely unnecessary. People seem to think that an modeler's airbrush sprays as much gas and particulate matter as an autobody shop airbrush, or as much as the old Testor's rattle cans but they don't. Not even remotely close. You'd have to directly sprays enamels or lacquers into your face for an extended period to suffer ill effects, and the mess associated with even moderate levels of brushing is very minimal.

THANK you! I'll just use cardboard on the workbench then and see how it goes to start!

[Jonas Calhoun]

The things to worry about aren't necessarily the paints, but the solvents (thinners and cleaners) that you'll be spraying....at least wear a mask.

A booth isn't very expensive, and really, aren't your lungs worth it?

(Oh, and personally, I wouldn't vent to the dryer either...I wouldn't want the particulate and such stuck in the line that my clothes use. Just go the extra little bit, and use a piece of plywood with the vent stuck through it going to the window)

Dan

[Lt. Z0mBe]

I'm no physician. This is purely anecdotal. I, personally have only had one problem shooting anything from an airbrush in my life. I was shooting Future into my booth, and forgot to turn the fan on. For whatever reason, I inhaled a big lungful. My lungs "itched" for a few days, then I got a chest cold, followed by two days in the hospital with pneumonia. Note: this is association, as I cannot prove a causal relationship here.

Sounds like a classic case of chemical pneumonitus.

Ken

Or, modeler ingnoramus, as it were.

Kenny

[Harry Joy]

Here is a great recent discussion on the subject of modeling and somewhat over-cautious preventive measures at Hyperscale. I know a number of these men posting in the discussion in the 1:1. Many of the posters in the thread are semi-professionals or twice my age - I have no problem taking their words at face value.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/m ... ht+edit%29

But for myself, I've got mild asthma and allergies that frequently run amok. The only modeling substances I use that set them off are acetone based solvents and occasionally CA. I mostly use acrylics nowadays, but used lacquer based paints predominantly for years. I still prefer to clean my airbrush with lacquer cleaner because it's so very effective and quick. Nothing I spray sets of my allergies. Nothing. I don't recommend using rattle cans in an enclosed space. Because of the vast amount of stuff you put into the air, your snot can come out green for a day if you aren't careful. But airbrushing? Never had any kind of issue. None at all.