Finer polish than Novus #2

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:24 pm

Hello I searched around but couldnt find a specific answer.
What is a finer (smaller grit) polish than Novus #2?

I have a transparent epoxy-resin part with seam-lines. I sanded the seams with 2500 grit wet sand paper, then I polished the surface with Novus #2 and a que tip.
I heard that Novus #1 contains mild abrasives but I cant confirm this, but I used it anyways. I polished it with Novus #1, but the surface is not as transparent as an untouched surface (which I didnt sand at all).

So what is the next step in plastic polishes?

Ive heard of Meguiars Mirror Glaze #10 Polish and other products. But does anyone know if it is finer than Novus #2?

http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/product_detail.do?q=4728

Or would this work better after using Novus #2:
"Meguiars Fine-Cut Cleaner # 02 M - 0216" (for automobiles)
"Fine-Cut Cleaner is a mildly abrasive cleaner that removes fine surface defects including light oxidation, stains, scratches, swirls and fresh water spots. Diminishing Abrasives cut quickly, then reduce to a polishing rouge, while Buffered Abrasive action lubricates the finish to prevent scratching."
http://www.azautobodysupply.com/meficl02m021.html

I was thinking if the abrasives are smaller than Novus #2 that it could work as a final step since the abrasives breakup then it turns into a polish.
But im not sure what is finer: the "Meguiars Mirror Glaze #10 Polish" or the ""Meguiars Fine-Cut Cleaner # 02 M."

Can anyone with experience or more info help me out?

Thank you.

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:38 pm

The Meguiars Fine-Cut Cleaner #02 is quite abrasive; more like a polishing compound for removing surface defects. The Meguiars #10 is practically the same thing as Novus 2 or Meguiars PlastX, maybe even a little more abrasive. I think you are jumping directly from the 2500 grit paper to the polish without any steps in between, and that's why your clear part is not clear. I would use Micro-Mesh from 3200 to 12000 before using the Novus. That's an expensive proposition, since micro-mesh is not cheap. You can probably get one of those tri-grit polishing sticks in the nail-care section of your local drug store and get really good results. Squadron also sells a "hobby" version of this same stick for two or three times the cost. Plain white toothpaste is also a mild abrasive that can be used to get the 2500 grit scratches out of the plastic before you polish. Hope this helps!

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Hi thanks for the reply and the info about Meguiars Fine-Cut Cleaner, I can rule that out now.
So for clarification do you think the jump from 2500 grit to -> Novus #2, is too big?
Or the jump from Novus #2 to -> Novus #1 is too big?

And how would Micromesh fit into the steps from heaviest to finest grit polishing? Ive search the internet and this forum for the specific grit comparisons, but I didn’t really find the answers.

1) 2500 grit
2) micromesh 3200 to __??
3) Novus #2 ?? (I think it’s reported to be 1500 grit but it seems to get a smoother finish than when I use 2500 grit wet-sand paper). (Or maybe switch steps 2 and 3?)

[edit: Here's the link that indicates Novus #2 is around 1500 to 2000 grit, that's why I'm uncertain which to use first, Novus #2 or micromesh 3200.]
http://headlightrestoration.org/novus.html

4) micromesh __?? To __??

5) Final liquid polish name=??

For step 5) what would you recommend for a final (liquid) plastic polish, or is micromesh 12,000 grit as good as a liquid polish? (I prefer a liquid since it’s easier to get over smaller surfaces/ edges.)

Youre right about micromesh being expensive. I went to a hobby store now and it was selling a 3x3” micromesh sheet for $4.
Does anyone know of a physical store where I could buy micromesh or wet-sand paper in the 12,000 range besides overpriced hobby stores? I tried hardware stores but they don’t carry that.
Thanks again.

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:29 pm

It is generally accepted that you use the liquid polishes like Novus 2 after you have done the micro-mesh work. Novus 2 is nowhere near as abrasive as 2000-grit paper; it is more like 12 to 15,000-grit. But it will still scratch if you rub it in too hard. Another thing you might want to try to restore the clarity of your part is Future; it does a great job at filling in the micro-scratches and it may solve your problem without having to resort to more polishing.

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:37 pm

I see. I also have Future and I believe you helped me with info on that before. But I brush it on and when I do, it leaves water marks so I would need to sand or polish those out.

So can anyone recommend a final polisher which is finer than Novus #2?
Im trying to achieve a shiny glass-like surface. It doesnt need to be actually reflective like a mirror, but when I angle a side of the part, towards a light, I can see slight surface imperfections and I want to eliminate those.

Thanks.

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:55 pm

Don't brush the Future onto the part because that will definitely leave subtle brush strokes. Instead, pour enough Future into a container to fully submerge the part and then lift it out and allow the excess to drip off the edges. You should immediately put the part somewhere safe & covered to dry or you'll get dust in the surface. The beauty of this method is if you DO get dust or goof up, you can wash it off with an ammonia window cleaner (Windex) and start over with no harm to the part.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:10 pm

Er... Novus #1?

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:29 pm

Novus 1 is not a polish but a protectant. It prevents static build-up on plastic clear parts and that helps keep dust and dirt from sticking to them; it works really well as the final wipe on helmet visors and plastic windscreens but it doesn't actually polish anything.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:17 pm

Not according to their literature. It's the final polish and sealant.

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:35 pm

I use it. It doesn't polish, it just protects the surface. The OP reported in his first post that he already used Novus 1 and it didn't do anything.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:45 pm

That's what I get for speed reading.

The problem may be in the epoxy-resin. Novus and Mirrorglaze are make for harder plastic like acrylic and polycarb. Epoxy resins are a different beast and take polish in weird ways. I've found the best way is to polish as best as possible and clear coat with something that I can polish like acrylic. Does the resin manufacturer have any recommendations for polishing?

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:13 pm

Yeah, that's why I think kenno3 will probably have his best luck with just putting a nice coat of Future over it and calling it done.

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:04 pm

Thanks for the replies. I tried Novus #1 and it doesn’t really do anything. It seems to be only a cleaner and I cant confirm if it has any abrasives.

I tried using Future on the part but it didn’t help restore clarity. It also causes watermarks even if I dip it in because it doesn’t dry evenly on the different surfaces.

So I still need a final polish which is more abrasive than just normal cleaner.

I found this long ago which lists the grits of different polishes:

“grit / mm / micron

1. 2000 / 6000 / 3
2. 2500 / / is the grocery bags ---- source Russ Fairfield so the bag is finer than 2000 grit. good to burnish the wood.
3. 0 / 8000 / 3 / I have seen two different sources on the micron 3 being either 6,000 grit or 8,000 grit.
4. 0 / 12,000 /
==========================

Above the double line is sandpaper below starts the polishes
Micro-mesh gloss = 14,000 = 1 micron
Hut Ultra-Gloss = less than 1 micron”
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/one ... post775984

So what do you think would be a better polish to rub out water marks on Future, without polishing off the full layer of Future?
Or what do you think will be better in general to polish the cured epoxy-resin for maximum shine and clarity?

1) HUT Ultra Gloss Plastic Polish = less than 1 micron
“We tested plastics that ranged from the softest materials, like the buterates, to harder materials such as Crushed Velvet, AcryliGem, cellulose acetate, Corian®, and Poly-Gem. This is the easiest, fastest way to polish plastics on the lathe. Simply sand your turnings to 800 grit and polish. There is no need for higher grit sanding.”
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200577 ... olish.aspx

Or 2) Micro-Gloss = 1 micron
“Micro-Gloss a general all purpose water-based liquid abrasive which uses a one micron aluminum oxide abrasive crystal to achieve a fine finish on acrylics, plastics, polycarbonate, fiberglass, wood, silver, gold, copper, brass, paint urethanes, lacquers, and polyesters to name a few. This unique liquid removed hairline scratches, haziness, and halos untouched by other products. Contains no filler or wax that could cause yellowing. Remove scratches and imperfections with Micro-Gloss and buff back to optical clarity. Micro-Gloss will remove a 4000 Micro-Mesh or 1500 CAMI scratch pattern.”
http://www.sisweb.com/micromesh/referen ... _gloss.htm

Or 3) Compound Sampler: This is a 4 part kit that contains the above Micro-Gloss and also:
MICRO-GLOSS #5
The same as Micro-Gloss, but with a five micron aluminum oxide crystal. Use when a more aggressive cutting action is required. Follow up with Micro-Gloss regular.

MICRO-FINISH
The final step to remove any residual haze. Use this polish to brighten and give a pristine finish.

http://www.sisweb.com/micromesh/micro_gloss.htm

========
There is also higher grit polishes.
4) MICRO-BUFF = removing 7 micron or finer surface scratches
5) KWICK-KUT = A waterborne finessing compound, engineered specifically for cured paint and urethane coatings. More aggressive than Micro-Buff, Kwick-Kut cuts quickly and smoothly to remove 15 micron or finer sanding scratches and polishes the surface back to perfection.

So what do you think is the better deal / better product, to get the kit of 4 =$18.00. Or get Huts =$10.99.
And what do you think is the next step in grit to use after Novus #2?

Thanks.

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:55 pm

I'd strip the Future off the part with an ammonia-based window cleaner, clean the part really well with dishwashing detergent, and dip it again. I've dipped & stripped parts two or three times before I was satisfied. And maybe get one of those tri-grit polishing sticks that I mentioned before and use it on the part before dipping.

The "Craft Kit for Model makers and Hobbyists" on this page:
http://www.sisweb.com/micromesh/craftsman_kits.htm
is a really nice set for the price, but I don't think it's necessary to save your part.

What kind of part is this, anyway? Was the mold line a flaw in the part? Maybe you can just get a replacement from the kit maker?

PetarB · Post by **PetarB** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:12 pm

Once I got a resin 'clear' canopy. I polished it, and polished it, and polished it, but surface imperfections refused to go away leaving a less than clear surface. I was stumped until I took a look at the surface with a magnifier. There were TINY bubbles in the resin which made it less than clear. So the polished surface did nothing to make the final canopy fully transparent! The vendor didn't offer to replace the part unforunately.

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:15 pm

It's a part I made with a 2 part mold. That's why there's a seamline. When I take out the part from the mold, I must shave off some excess material which sometimes creates small scrapes on the part.

It's a transparent blue structure-like part for a futuristic look, and light shines through it. That's why I want to polish out the scrapes and seamline.

I cant buy a micromesh sanding kit atm because Ive already spent a lot on this project and the part has faceted sides which makes sanding difficult. Thats why I want a liquid polish. But I may use the mesh paper for my next project.

I used Future on the master part when I made the mold, but putting Future on the finished part isnt working because it's transparent so the scratch underneath still shows.

But about the "tri-grit polishing sticks" are those grits higher than 2500 wet-sand paper? I looked online but didnt really find the grit listing for those. Could you know a link to one, can you post it?

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:19 pm

PetarB wrote:Once I got a resin 'clear' canopy. I polished it, and polished it, and polished it, but surface imperfections refused to go away leaving a less than clear surface. I was stumped until I took a look at the surface with a magnifier. There were TINY bubbles in the resin which made it less than clear. So the polished surface did nothing to make the final canopy fully transparent! The vendor didn't offer to replace the part unforunately.

Ah yes, Ive experienced that. I invested in a pressure pot to cast my part under pressure to collapse the air bubbles. So the inner "volume" of my part is clear, I just need to get the surface clear.

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:42 pm

kenno3 wrote: But about the "tri-grit polishing sticks" are those grits higher than 2500 wet-sand paper? I looked online but didnt really find the grit listing for those. Could you know a link to one, can you post it?

http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=SQ30505

This is much, much finer than 2500-grit paper. If you are outside the USA, this type of stick should be available from the major hobby suppliers in your part of the world.

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:49 pm

Thanks for the link. Im in California. And you say I can find this at the "nail-care section of your local drug store?"
Is "Tri Grit" the brand name or just the name for type of stick that has 3 grits?

If Tri Grit is the brand name then Id know if what I find in the drug store, has the correct grits you mention; otherwise how would I know what grit it is if it isnt labeled, just labeled for "nail care?" That's what I was concerned about.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:55 am

And most important when using polishing films or sticks, use them wet.

You might also try Tamiya's fine polishing paste. It'll put a shine on gloss paint.

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:30 pm

Kylwell wrote:And most important when using polishing films or sticks, use them wet.

You might also try Tamiya's fine polishing paste. It'll put a shine on gloss paint.

Thanks. Do you have an idea what grit that is, or where it fits between the other MM or polishes?

Also im trying to find a polish that I can buy at a physical store, since shipping will be too much of a delay and unneeded cost.

Anyone have a idea where to buy Huts Polish or Micro gloss in southern California near the area code 91765, besides this place?
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200577 ... olish.aspx
I tried Home Depot, Rockler, Ace hardware, and Pegasus Hobbys.

I found Meguiar's® Plastx® Plastic Cleaner & Polish at a physical store in my location. Anyone know how it compares in grit to the others in this thread? Im trying to buy it today to finish my project.
Thanks again.

Innovative cleaning solution to restore clarity to rigid and flexible plastic.

* Microscopic Diminishing Abrasive™ Technology removes light oxidation, chemical degradation, surface contamination, stains and light surface scratches
http://www.harborfreight.com/plastx-cle ... 96662.html

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:38 pm

Don't know. All I know is it'll make gloss paint glossier. I've got polishing films that run to 30000 grit.

kenno3 · Post by **kenno3** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:42 am

Wow Future is amazing. I took a part that didnt need sanding (so it was already pretty clear) and dipped it in Future. I let it dry and it kept the wet look which made it even clearer!
The only problem I have is it isnt drying evenly over all surfaces of my complex part. So some spots look wet while others look normal. I tried touching it up with a brush, but it makes the surface look hazy or cloudy, instead of the wet look I get from dipping.

I tried re-dipping, but each time certain spots dont get the wet look.
I posted a question in the Future thread, that way everyone can get the answer specific to Future. But just wanted to add here that I took your advice of dipping.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:36 am

That's a classic mold release symptom. If washing it with liquid dish washing soap doesn't do the trick try wiping it down with lacquer thinner. Do not soak the part in lacquer thinner, it'll make a mess and ruin the part.

qaz555 · Post by **qaz555** » Sun May 27, 2012 10:50 pm