How to recreate a "takeoff" jet blast ?

Arthur Pendragon · Post by **Arthur Pendragon** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:58 am

The title says it all..

How can I recreate this in a diorama ?

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/G ... akeoff.jpg

Using lights is a certain thing... But how to recreate the "blast" in a static form ? Frosted plastic tubing ?

And I plan to do it in both 1/72 and 1/48 scale...

Tankmodeler · Post by **Tankmodeler** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:53 pm

Clear tubing frosted by you (use 600-1000 grit sandpaper) in the areas where the colours will be and then painted on the inside with transparent colours might do it.

But, I have to say, that I've never, ever seen any static depiction of flame, fire, smoke or afterburning that looks the least bit realistic when complete. The static nature to the matierials used simply overwhelms any ability of (my) mind to see it as a good representation of a very non-static event. If you've seen these things before and liked the effect, then maybe it works for you. Not for me.

Now, this sort of thing _can_ be used to get a good representation if all you will be doing is taking a photo of the result. The 2-D nature of the still photo allows the static nature of the model to be combined to show movement relatively well, in some cases. But when you see the model in real ife, in front of you, I always find the results not just disappointing, but really, really disappointing. You might want to consider that before doing a lot of work, depending upon how you've percieved this sort of thing in the past.

Paul

Umi_Ryuzuki · Post by **Umi_Ryuzuki** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:06 pm

How about taking a photo of the afterburner and copy and pasting it
in a band across the page, then cutting it out and rolling a tube or cone?
You could place it into the tail of the aircraft and then see if it works or not.

sleepymarine · Post by **sleepymarine** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:49 pm

I'm wondering how the frosted tube approach above would look if one were to illuminate it with a quickly, but randomly flashing LED...

Umi_Ryuzuki · Post by **Umi_Ryuzuki** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:20 am

sleepymarine wrote:I'm wondering how the frosted tube approach above would look if one were to illuminate it with a quickly, but randomly flashing LED...

Sort of like the tin robot with the plastic machine gun and the blinking light?

scratchy · Post by **scratchy** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:58 am

Using an epoxy putty, I would sculpt the "flames" so that they would fit into the jets. Once the "flames" have cured, I would then pour a two part mould. Then I would suspend an LED at the base of the form so that it's hidden once in the jet, and I would inject clear resin into the mould.

Once cured, I would airbrush the colours of the flame with Tamiya "Clear" paints, blending them to match the image that you have.

Yeah, it's a bit of work, but I think it would give you the results that you're looking for.

Ziz · Post by **Ziz** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:00 am

Are you trying to re-create that exact shot? You're going to need to put it on some kind of display stand anyway so combine your efforts. Use two clear rods coming out of the exhausts into the base, then use Tamiya clear orange and yellow to paint the flame effect onto the rods where needed, leaving the rest of the rods clear. As modelers, we understand that the support rods aren't supposed to be "seen", so any time you can disguise them into the display, you're that much ahead of the game.

Glorfindel · Post by **Glorfindel** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:56 am

Ziz and Scratchy are on to two very interesting and effective ideas. Both are sound.

Chacal · Post by **Chacal** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:13 pm

Four words for you: "Konga, a Mulher-Gorila".

Do you know this carnival side-show illusion? The woman who turns into a gorilla? It's done with mirrors. If you angle it correctly, you can have the F-14 in one "box" and the "flame" in another, with a black background, lit with LEDs. Add a 45-degree glass pane to reflect the flame and it'll look like a ghostly, semi-transparent image superimposed onto the F-14. As it is done with mirrors, it is viewable from different angles.

MillenniumFalsehood · Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:36 pm

That's a brilliant idea, Chacal! I don't build jets much, but that would be useful for things like the Space Shuttle.

scratchy · Post by **scratchy** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:08 am

scratchy wrote:Using an epoxy putty, I would sculpt the "flames" so that they would fit into the jets. Once the "flames" have cured, I would then pour a two part mould. Then I would suspend an LED at the base of the form so that it's hidden once in the jet, and I would inject clear resin into the mould.

Once cured, I would airbrush the colours of the flame with Tamiya "Clear" paints, blending them to match the image that you have.

Yeah, it's a bit of work, but I think it would give you the results that you're looking for.

I used the technique on my Falcon cockpit and gunwell

naoto · Post by **naoto** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:59 am

Chacal wrote:Four words for you: "Konga, a Mulher-Gorila".

Do you know this carnival side-show illusion? The woman who turns into a gorilla? It's done with mirrors. If you angle it correctly, you can have the F-14 in one "box" and the "flame" in another, with a black background, lit with LEDs. Add a 45-degree glass pane to reflect the flame and it'll look like a ghostly, semi-transparent image superimposed onto the F-14. As it is done with mirrors, it is viewable from different angles.

Ah.. I assume you're referring to Pepper's Ghost

Chacal · Post by **Chacal** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:54 am

Yes, Naoto! That's exactly it. I mentioned the "mulher gorila" bit because Arthur is from Rio and there was this particular 'woman into a gorilla' sideshow act in an amusement park in here. He'd probably know that.

Darthsideous · Post by **Darthsideous** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:05 am

scratchy wrote:Using an epoxy putty, I would sculpt the "flames" so that they would fit into the jets. Once the "flames" have cured, I would then pour a two part mould. Then I would suspend an LED at the base of the form so that it's hidden once in the jet, and I would inject clear resin into the mould.

Once cured, I would airbrush the colours of the flame with Tamiya "Clear" paints, blending them to match the image that you have.

Yeah, it's a bit of work, but I think it would give you the results that you're looking for.

I think this is a great idea

rayra · Post by **rayra** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:13 am

build / sculpt it using clear 100% silicone caulking. Build it up in tubes / layers, as if decorating a cake, but hanging upside down. Use a thin clear rod as a core. Sculpt / feather the final layers. End light with very bright LEDs. In fact I'd think arranging the lights in a ring inside the engine would give the best appearance.

cokefiend · Post by **cokefiend** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:17 pm

If i may, here are 3 shots of one way Ive seen it done.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cokefiend/ ... 52add68320

monsterboiler · Post by **monsterboiler** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:45 pm

This thread makes me think of this:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/37085?browseid=3567182

which I think is so effective because of the local lighting effects. So maybe the secret is to include a little bit of carrier deck below your F-14 in the display and make it appear to be lit from the exhaust.

NNYGamer · Post by **NNYGamer** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:57 pm

LED lit aerogel comes to mind. But getting it in the size you need would be expensive.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:03 pm

NNYGamer wrote:LED lit aerogel comes to mind. But getting it in the size you need would be expensive.

Getting it @ all would be problematic.

NNYGamer · Post by **NNYGamer** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:47 pm

Kylwell wrote:
NNYGamer wrote:LED lit aerogel comes to mind. But getting it in the size you need would be expensive.
Getting it @ all would be problematic.

United Nuclear has it in granular form, sold out of the 29mm x 7mm solid disk

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:05 am

NNYGamer wrote:
Kylwell wrote:
NNYGamer wrote:LED lit aerogel comes to mind. But getting it in the size you need would be expensive.
Getting it @ all would be problematic.
United Nuclear has it in granular form, sold out of the 29mm x 7mm solid disk

Last time I checked tho' you really can't meld it all into a shape.

LrdSatyr8 · Post by **LrdSatyr8** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:47 am

Personally the best way I can think to do it would be to create a pattern of the flames in photoshop. Then spray some hairspray on a sheet of clear plastic sheet (like from the cover of a project notebook). Then print it on the sheet (with the hair spray side up), cut it out, roll it into a tube (with the printed side inside), and insert into the engines. For extra effect, put an LED into the engine ends and you should be able to acheive a pretty realistic looking exhaust flame.

dizzyfugu · Post by **dizzyfugu** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:27 am

I achieved some good results with polishing cotton:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... 2345947808

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... 345947808/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... 2345947808

Works also well for gunfire/missiles!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... 2283966622

Basically, it's a cone made from white polishing cotton, which is AFAIK full acryllic stuff, not natural cotton. The the flames were sprayed onto the thing, using dayglo orange, normal orange and yellow - only lightly, the cotton is not to be soaked. The cone's interior remains white.

When you use some artificial light for photos, the interior reflects it and creates a kind of glow - on the píctures it looks pretty convincing, and even on a display model the look is quite good.

starracer73 · Post by **starracer73** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:32 pm

This may be out of the box, but you may want to try flames made of candy. Here is a photo:

http://cake-decorating.livejournal.com/932249.html

I think that these could be melted and shaped. Might be worth a try.[/url]

Tankmodeler · Post by **Tankmodeler** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:42 pm

Candy or any other foodstuff is a really bad idea. Not only is it really suseptable to moisture, but also heat, rot and pests.

Nay, nay!

dizzyfugu · Post by **dizzyfugu** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:19 am

An addendum, using the CG option: the Lightning's afterburner flames come from a real Lightning, which was photographed in almost the same angle, so the flames "fit" into the seting.

Copy/paste - but it IS convincing...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... otostream/