Dulling down gloss and semi-gloss hobby enamels with flattening powders,can it be done?

[jpolacchi]

I know that the typical answer to this would be, "use a flat or semi-gloss clear coat" or even to, "sand the painted surface after it cures to dull it down",but has anyone attempted using a flattening powder or "base" with a flattening agent in it to completely flatten or knock the the gloss down on hobby enamels such as Model Master or Floquil enamels? I read in some very old forums(different web sites) that way back when others would add talcum powder to accomplish this. If that is what is done(or just using an automotive flattening powder),will any flattening powder work or only a specfic one or kind,or is there a better one?How do you know how much "to add" to such small batch as 1/2 oz. or 1 oz. bottle quantities? There are a few colors I have be they Model Master or Floquil that I want to really knock the gloss down if not completely make it a matte finish and I like the color, but they only come as "gloss" or a "semi-gloss". I also read that adding a flattening powder/agent,or was it just using talc)I don't remember, but that it can slightly change(sort of fades it out) "the color",of which I don't mind that. It just gives it a more "aged" look which is what I'm after and just over coating it with a flat clear coat won't accomplish that.

[seam-filler]

Flatting (or matting) powders are usually a silicate. What that means is that they are pretty inert and should work with any paint medium bet it enamel, acrylic or lacquer.

As for quantities all you can really do is experiment. I think you'll be surprised just how little of the powder you need to change the sheen of a paint.

I would resist spraying paint that has matting powder in it - I think clogging may be a real hazard.

If you want to dull down the finish to show wear & tear, you could try using a light application of an automotive rubbing compound such as T-Cut (if that's available in the US). It removes the top-most (glossy) layer of paint. With enamels & acrylics it gives a worn and "tired" look. You do need to let the paint cure for a few days before you do this, though.

[dizzyfugu]

I am skeptical. Adding something to the paint does not change its basic properties, it just increases the coat's surface into a fragmented plane. The glossy quaility is still there, though, and unless you have a model that makes such a surface plausible (e.g. a large scale tank model, esp. with a cast hull), I'd assume that the result a) does not look good and b) will still require a dull varnish coat for the intended finish. I also agree about not trying this stunt with an airbrush - I do not use one, but I'd expect a messy experience until you get everything right. And the increased surface will certainly affect how quickly the paint dries up. And using a brush also sounds like a messy/streaky affair. What's wrong with varnish?

Personally, I'd give this a (double) thumbs down.

[seam-filler]

The addition of fine particles is exactly how paint manufacturers make paint matte (flat) in the first place - it makes the surface rougher and therefore scatters light. It's that rough surface that gives the need to gloss-coat matte surfaces before applying decals.

But I agree - matting powder wouldn't be my first choice which is why I suggested a rubbing compound.

[Lt. Z0mBe]

I know that the typical answer to this would be, "use a flat or semi-gloss clear coat" or even to, "sand the painted surface after it cures to dull it down",but has anyone attempted using a flattening powder or "base" with a flattening agent in it to completely flatten or knock the the gloss down on hobby enamels such as Model Master or Floquil enamels? I read in some very old forums(different web sites) that way back when others would add talcum powder to accomplish this. If that is what is done(or just using an automotive flattening powder),will any flattening powder work or only a specfic one or kind,or is there a better one?How do you know how much "to add" to such small batch as 1/2 oz. or 1 oz. bottle quantities? There are a few colors I have be they Model Master or Floquil that I want to really knock the gloss down if not completely make it a matte finish and I like the color, but they only come as "gloss" or a "semi-gloss". I also read that adding a flattening powder/agent,or was it just using talc)I don't remember, but that it can slightly change(sort of fades it out) "the color",of which I don't mind that. It just gives it a more "aged" look which is what I'm after and just over coating it with a flat clear coat won't accomplish that.

So a matt, clear coat, out of the bottle, will be no different than a gloss coat out of the bottle. Other than having some fluidificants or emulsifiers added to help keep the surface tension where it should be given the “pigment” that is there in the form of flattening powder. As others have said, most flattening agents are just very fine silicates. All that said, some flat coats instead just have a different binder that will crosslink with a rough texture and scatter the light that way. But I am not sure which brands do that. The end result is the same, though, in that the matte coat will still cause a slight graying of the color coat.

Here’s an experiment for you to try. Paint the blackest black you can onto a piece of styrene. Let it dry, then mask and paint, say, half of it with a gloss coat and half with a matte coat. You will see the matte side is lighter than the gloss side. Here’s the cool thing: it’s easily controllable. Keep your coats light, but sufficient for coverage, and you can very the intensity of the graying by building up your coats. Just keep your coats light and allow them to dry so they don’t get glossy and cause you to backtrack.

The Old Ones did use talc once upon a time. But, it’s so coarse and clumpy, I can’t imagine you will avoid “dandruff” all over your model. I used Krylon clear matte once upon a time. It had a similar problem, having little flecks of dandruff here and there. I mention that because cheap paints have less finely ground pigments and I have to imagine it would not be unlike using talc. As far as measurements, it’s trial and error until you figure out what works. Again, you’re probably also going to have to add fluidificants or emusifiers to keep the mixture at a surface tension that’s sprayable.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

[jpolacchi]

Thanks for the input. I know Tamiya makes a flattening additive for its acrylics, but I supposed they don't for their enamels because I might attempt to use that on one of my model master enamels I have a surplus of. I may investigate and research this a little further and find out what an automotive paint supplier may recommend for a flattening additive that will be universal and have the ability to be out through an airbrush. I myself would not use talcum...I think that would be a disaster and i would just be wasting paint and even the m.m enamels are becoming more and more expensive and harder to acquire.

[Kylwell]

I've done it. It takes a HUGE amount to get a true flat and if you over do it it'll get a frosted look. How much you ask? Roughly a bottle of Tamiya flat base to a bottle of Tamiya gloss paint. I say roughly because as always, results will vary. It's easier to just lay some Alclad matte over it all.

[jpolacchi]

I'm going to see what information and recommendations i might get from an auto paint retailer when working with enamels.