why i am trying to help and my cautionary tale

[lohengrin]

i think some people here want to view me as the bad guy, but for me this mess with the ssm forums is a really bad case of deja vu. allow me to explain...

back in the mid 2000's I joined a small forum called the mighty ten-12. it quickly became my home and I loved being a part of that community.

around 2010-2011 weird things started happening with moderators and admins disappearing or going AWOL and the owner seemingly no-where to be found.

a short while later the last of the two active admins left and they placed me as the sole admin.

at that point I realised a few sobering truths:

1) the forum owner had permanently disappeared.

2) I had no access to backup the compendium of information that had accumulated over the last 10 years. only the owner could do that and the hosting service would not grant me access.

3) the forum was hosted through a free hosting website which was going to be revamped. they were in the process of shutting down all the old forums in favor of rolling out new forum software.

so instead of fighting the inevitable i decided to buy a domain, buy a decent hosting plan (that wasn't on free or cheap hosting), install robust, trusted forum software, learn how to maintain a website, maintain php based forum software and try to be an efficient community admin.

over the coming months i tried to get people to move over to ast but they loved ten-12 and were stubborn. as a last resort i put up a big warning message on the old forum explaining what was happening behind the scenes and pleading with people to at least register or bookmark the url for our new 'home'. they came over, reluctantly, a few at a time.

within months of launching the new forum at ast, the old ten-12 forum and all the irreplaceable content was wiped out, completely gone, with no apology.

and forgive me for being blunt here but john doesn't give a damn about this forum and he is the only one with access to fix it.

[Thom]

I don't know what's going on here. I hope John and Linda well, though I do wish there was at least some notification of whatever is going on.
Just for myself, I appreciate your effort and am taking advantage of it, so, thank you.

[Saturn]

I like your weedios.

and forgive me for being blunt here but john doesn't give a damn about this forum and he is the only one with access to fix it.

John Lester has provided this space for us for over TWENTY-FIVE years ad-free. I am cutting him some slack in maybe starshipmodeler.com may not be the #1 priority for him right now.

[EVApodman]

I like your weedios.

and forgive me for being blunt here but john doesn't give a damn about this forum and he is the only one with access to fix it.

John Lester has provided this space for us for over TWENTY-FIVE years ad-free. I am cutting him some slack in maybe starshipmodeler.com may not be the #1 priority for him right now.

Agreed. It takes a lot of work to manage a forum and 25 years of it is a long time. I retired from my job of 24 years.

I feel like we are living on borrowed time and I fear the day when I try to log on and get a page not found error.

Atomic City is basically gone. Not like it was 20 years ago. Another site devoted to 2001 stuff, the ODEC pro board hasn't had a posting in several years. The Eagle Forum is gone. I don't know about Resin Illuminati. Another site for POTA is basically dead too.

[Thom]

I like your weedios.

and forgive me for being blunt here but john doesn't give a damn about this forum and he is the only one with access to fix it.

John Lester has provided this space for us for over TWENTY-FIVE years ad-free. I am cutting him some slack in maybe starshipmodeler.com may not be the #1 priority for him right now.

Agreed. It takes a lot of work to manage a forum and 25 years of it is a long time. I retired from my job of 24 years.

I feel like we are living on borrowed time and I fear the day when I try to log on and get a page not found error.

Atomic City is basically gone. Not like it was 20 years ago. Another site devoted to 2001 stuff, the ODEC pro board hasn't had a posting in several years. The Eagle Forum is gone. I don't know about Resin Illuminati. Another site for POTA is basically dead too.

Resin Illuminati has been gone for a couple years now. They still have a Face page which is, sadly, nowhere near as good as an actual forum. Just another gallery site with a different group name. We need to keep these forums alive for when people decide to come back to actual modelling sites!

[Kylwell]

Just an FYI, John is not the only one with admin level access and the lack of movement here is due to people having real jobs and the general decline of forums all over. I'm sorry somebody pee'd in your Cheerios. The exit is over there.

[Thom]

Just an FYI, John is not the only one with admin level access and the lack of movement here is due to people having real jobs and the general decline of forums all over. I'm sorry somebody pee'd in your Cheerios. The exit is over there.

Do you have any idea what is going on? At the end to the day, we just want to know what is happening. I mean, if those in charge want noting more to do with this site, then maybe they should just shut off the lights and let everyone know the show is over.

We've all been faithful members of SSM for decades and sure as hell deserve more than a flippant 'the exit is over there.'

Thom

[WraithVerge]

Just an FYI, John is not the only one with admin level access and the lack of movement here is due to people having real jobs and the general decline of forums all over. I'm sorry somebody pee'd in your Cheerios. The exit is over there.

Do you have any idea what is going on? At the end to the day, we just want to know what is happening. I mean, if those in charge want noting more to do with this site, then maybe they should just shut off the lights and let everyone know the show is over.

We've all been faithful members of SSM for decades and sure as hell deserve more than a flippant 'the exit is over there.'

Thom

Agreed. Or at the very least, give someone the option to take the place over and assume the costs and burdens thereof.

Just an FYI, John is not the only one with admin level access and the lack of movement here is due to people having real jobs and the general decline of forums all over. I'm sorry somebody pee'd in your Cheerios. The exit is over there.

If that's the case, then you mean to tell me that for several months, NO ONE has had the time to check in on the forums because of work?

Not to mention: just because forums are "declining all over" that we should let this one go too is akin to saying "everyone is jumping off the bridge to their deaths, let's go join them because it's inevitable".

Last: "The exit is over there"; thank you for the reminder of how we can all go to hell the minute things get inconvenient. If that's your solution to this issue, I think we're done talking here.

[EVApodman]

I think that rather than telling everyone the party is over, the admin people have taken the easy way out and have simply disappeared.

It doesn't take 5 minutes to say "so long, thanks for all the fish" and exit.

[irishtrek]

There are several possible reasons why John, Linda have not been able to log in and get things running smoothly. Too many narrow minded people lately it seems like.

[Deckard]

This looks like it is about the seventh or so open topic here at SSM on this matter of 'supposed abandonment' so it's a probably as good as any of the others for a response.

I noticed a fair while ago the lack of enforced moderation and, haven't heard from One Zero for years nor Linda for about ten. I've been posting since '06 but nearly always on Movies, TV etc and in that time have seen a whole heap of members drop out and it's fair to say the forum is a shell of it what used to be. Look at Thunderdome for example and there is a whole lot of other Topics that are completely bare or haven't had a post for ages.

So what's happened?

Isn't it really obvious? We've all gotten much older and we've moved on. This isn't rocket science, it's not only the forum contributors but also the moderators and owners and the mean age has got be at least between sixty and seventy years old now, for sure, and there has been no replacement generation. SSM has been going and going strong for about twenty five years and that longevity should be celebrated, if it ends anytime soon it will be very sad but what can I tell ya, like anything of course it will end, nothing stays the same.

I don't think the forum will close shop unless the owner sells the (entire) business or goes belly up. All anybody can do is simply enjoy and make the most of it while it lasts. As for the lack of ever present moderation, those anointed people, as has been charmingly pointed out, have got other things on their plates and probably can't be bothered nurse-maiding every second day as they once 'over' did, and I for one am happy with that. I quite like it as it is this way.

Those suffering angst about the uncertain future of this place have got to try and wean themselves off cyberspace a little bit because the reality is you don't really have any control of this situation. In fact you have none what-so-ever and as we read it's not doing you all much good. If you think you deserve better you're never going to get it and if you threaten to pack up and leave the only response will be don't slam the door on the way out.

The offer's on the table to migrate and thanks, but for me that's not going to happen. If and when SSM ends I go with it because as far as all this goes I do not want any new start, and there will be no continuation elsewhere and anybody who thinks there will be is going to be crushingly disappointed.

If and when change happens I am sure that we will click on one day not to find a blank page but instead an announcement of notice with plenty of time to take it from there. Before hand you're going to have to do your best to navigate yourself through any glitches or problems because the site maintenance as it was is no longer there (see para three). If you are unwilling or unable to do that all that can be done is to refer you to the moderator's post, but please stop criticizing and goading the owner.

[WraithVerge]

This looks like it is about the seventh or so open topic here at SSM on this matter of 'supposed abandonment' so it's a probably as good as any of the others for a response.

I noticed a fair while ago the lack of enforced moderation and, haven't heard from One Zero for years nor Linda for about ten. I've been posting since '06 but nearly always on Movies, TV etc and in that time have seen a whole heap of members drop out and it's fair to say the forum is a shell of it what used to be. Look at Thunderdome for example and there is a whole lot of other Topics that are completely bare or haven't had a post for ages.

So what's happened?

Isn't it really obvious? We've all gotten much older and we've moved on. This isn't rocket science, it's not only the forum contributors but also the moderators and owners and the mean age has got be at least between sixty and seventy years old now, for sure, and there has been no replacement generation. SSM has been going and going strong for about twenty five years and that longevity should be celebrated, if it ends anytime soon it will be very sad but what can I tell ya, like anything of course it will end, nothing stays the same.

I don't think the forum will close shop unless the owner sells the (entire) business or goes belly up. All anybody can do is simply enjoy and make the most of it while it lasts. As for the lack of ever present moderation, those anointed people, as has been charmingly pointed out, have got other things on their plates and probably can't be bothered nurse-maiding every second day as they once 'over' did, and I for one am happy with that. I quite like it as it is this way.

Those suffering angst about the uncertain future of this place have got to try and wean themselves off cyberspace a little bit because the reality is you don't really have any control of this situation. In fact you have none what-so-ever and as we read it's not doing you all much good. If you think you deserve better you're never going to get it and if you threaten to pack up and leave the only response will be don't slam the door on the way out.

The offer's on the table to migrate and thanks, but for me that's not going to happen. If and when SSM ends I go with it because as far as all this goes I do not want any new start, and there will be no continuation elsewhere and anybody who thinks there will be is going to be crushingly disappointed.

If and when change happens I am sure that we will click on one day not to find a blank page but instead an announcement of notice with plenty of time to take it from there. Before hand you're going to have to do your best to navigate yourself through any glitches or problems because the site maintenance as it was is no longer there (see para three). If you are unwilling or unable to do that all that can be done is to refer you to the moderator's post, but please stop criticizing and goading the owner.

No one is "goading" John here; as forum participants, we're understandably concerned about the forum we've frequented falling apart around us as its' owner is not doing anything about it, and we're also concerned for him. But according to you, "how dare we?"

Since your post here veers off into utterly out of touch, let's take your comments one by one here:

1)

I noticed a fair while ago the lack of enforced moderation and, haven't heard from One Zero for years nor Linda for about ten. I've been posting since '06 but nearly always on Movies, TV etc and in that time have seen a whole heap of members drop out and it's fair to say the forum is a shell of it what used to be. Look at Thunderdome for example and there is a whole lot of other Topics that are completely bare or haven't had a post for ages.

I've noticed this as well, but even as late as this past month, the "model pic of the month" has been updated on the main site. So someone is at least doing something here and there's no excuse for the lack of admin/ moderation activities even if John is unavailable; someone is handling things.

2)

So what's happened?

Isn't it really obvious? We've all gotten much older and we've moved on. This isn't rocket science, it's not only the forum contributors but also the moderators and owners and the mean age has got be at least between sixty and seventy years old now, for sure, and there has been no replacement generation. SSM has been going and going strong for about twenty five years and that longevity should be celebrated, if it ends anytime soon it will be very sad but what can I tell ya, like anything of course it will end, nothing stays the same.

While it may not be "rocket science", it's at least common courtesy to advise people when the "ride" is over. None of us are kids; we know nothing lasts forever. That said: it's at least a little insipid to use pointing that out as some sort of panacea versus people being worried about the state of the forums. It comes across as trying to shut people up.

3)

I don't think the forum will close shop unless the owner sells the (entire) business or goes belly up. All anybody can do is simply enjoy and make the most of it while it lasts. As for the lack of ever present moderation, those anointed people, as has been charmingly pointed out, have got other things on their plates and probably can't be bothered nurse-maiding every second day as they once 'over' did, and I for one am happy with that. I quite like it as it is this way.

So you prefer the forum malfunctioning when folks try to log in, issues with posting, no updates and other problems? Wow. Good thing you don't run an auto repair shop or ambulance service!!! Seriously: if people cannot care for the responsibilities they are given, then they need to alert someone so another who can may take up the reins and the slack. This kind of "anarchist" attitude truly bothers me.

4)

"Those suffering angst about the uncertain future of this place have got to try and wean themselves off cyberspace a little bit because the reality is you don't really have any control of this situation. In fact you have none what-so-ever and as we read it's not doing you all much good. If you think you deserve better you're never going to get it and if you threaten to pack up and leave the only response will be don't slam the door on the way out."

There's no need to rub salt in the wounds of those who are upset over something they treasure passing away, and I really think that's pretty crass and uncalled for on your part. "Get over it" is a cop-out for those who have the emotional range of a can of tuna(oil-packed), and your concern and compassion for your fellow members here is appealingly low.

Not to mention: in my particular case, "wean myself off of cyberspace": it's all I have for human interaction now because of my physical disabilities. I am now housebound and cannot get out to do anything other than doctor's appointments anymore. I wouldn't want to guess at your "remedy" for that, given your stance so far.

5)

"The offer's on the table to migrate and thanks, but for me that's not going to happen. If and when SSM ends I go with it because as far as all this goes I do not want any new start, and there will be no continuation elsewhere and anybody who thinks there will be is going to be crushingly disappointed."

And thankfully so in your case: with your attitude displayed thus far, you would poison anywhere else that you land with your negativity, nihilism and utter disregard for anyone else. If your wish is to be fatalistic and "circle the drain" while SSM sinks into a quantum singularity, that's your bag and you're welcome to it. But what you don't have the right to do is to drag others down that same bleak ending simply because you despise people caring about the places they love and cherish.

As for as "no continuation elsewhere", that is utterly, certifiably and demonstrably FALSE: as long as people who were part of something carry those memories times and forms with them, they can begin again elsewhere and resurrect what used to exist in a new place and time.

6)

"If and when change happens I am sure that we will click on one day not to find a blank page but instead an announcement of notice with plenty of time to take it from there. Before hand you're going to have to do your best to navigate yourself through any glitches or problems because the site maintenance as it was is no longer there (see para three). If you are unwilling or unable to do that all that can be done is to refer you to the moderator's post, but please stop criticizing and goading the owner."

While that may be the case, it's not acceptable to do that kind of "cold stop" without at least warning people (if possible). And "you're going to have to do your best to navigate yourself through any glitches or problems because the site maintenance as it was is no longer there" is even more so: how would you appreciate it if a place like your bank or a grocery store tried pulling that on you? Your utility company? The ER (or A&E for those in the UK)?

And "please stop criticizing and goading the owner"? So caring for this place is now "criticizing and goading"?

So let me summarize: your answer to all of this is a gigantic middle finger while telling us all to shut up and suck it up?

Frankly Deckard: your replies here have been some of the most out of touch, insensitive, crass, crude, rude and TONE DEAF I have ever had the sheer displeasure of encountering in my time online. As a former forum owner (selected and handed over control to a trusted member when my disability finally made me unable to continue, instead of doing like what was done here), everything you've said here has been the exact opposite of how operations at a forum during it's wind-down should go. You come across as a miserable individual, devoid of any happiness or charm save that which you gain by diminishing others and dragging them into your bleak pit of despair and gloom, and do your best to snuff any light and hope out of people in favor of a far more grim and fatalistic approach that results in everyone being as cold and unfeeling as yourself. Your own words in this topic are where I draw this summary from; blame yourself if you dislike it.

As for "don't let the door slam on the way out" we can't. It fell off the hinges because John and his admin/ mod team didn't fix it!!!

So in closing, let my final comment here be in the spirit of Starship Modeler: kindly take your entire post (and endemic attitude therein) and SHOVE IT UP URANUS.

Much regards,

-WV out (and gone)

P.S: Don't bother replying to me; after reading your post, I have no further interest in what dreck you come up with and will not read it.

[Saturn]

That's a hooooggggge wall of text from a 100-post newb.

[Deckard]

Well hopefully for you WV somebody who's running this show will see your rant, realise the extent of their disrespect for you and follow your advice on how to run a forum. I'm glad I could be there for you.

If you cancel me how will I know that? I never heard of you before your first post up above but you've been a member for awhile and have now suddenly appeared? So what would I be missing? How am I at a loss in the scheme of things?

Look, your rant has all the passion of a Kamala Dem supporter who' s suddenly come to terms with not only a crashing defeat next week, but the horrible realisation that after four years of Trump, more than likely eight years of JD Vance will follow! Probably means that you might keel over before you see the Democrats again in the White House. I'm a big fan of 'Lefties Losen' It'.

There, I've just introduced politics into the discussion and first time in along time I might add, so if there's movement at the station this thread will be locked down in no time and that means for sure a mod is about. Whoever it is PM 'em immediately and raise all your points above with them. I can't help you WV.

[Thom]

I don't think anyone here is 'goading' the owner. More than anything, we just hope John and Linda are alright as their absence/silence is worrying.

We just want to know what is happening. That's not a hard thing to ask for. Error creep is sliding in and we've found 'cheats' to get around it, and just decided to deal with pesky error codes, but not having any information coming in to tell us what's up is worse. I've been here for 17 years and this is my favorite forum, and yes, it won't last forever, but all I want is someone 'in the know' to say 'hey, this and that has happened for whatever reason, it's been so nice seeing people on the forum over the many years but sadly the time has come...'

Instead, for the first time in months we get a mod coming on and instead of informing us of what is happening, we get this,

Just an FYI, John is not the only one with admin level access and the lack of movement here is due to people having real jobs and the general decline of forums all over. I'm sorry somebody pee'd in your Cheerios. The exit is over there.

I tell you, if that is last word from someone in charge of the site or in a caretaker position, then that is truly a sad way for this site to go out. I'd much prefer a farewell, happy trails, and the lights will be turned off at midnight.

[Richard Baker]

I don't know whether to laugh, cry or just throw up...

[EVApodman]

I do not see any goading of the moderators here. I see people trying to find out what is going on. I see a forum that has been effectively abandoned, with the moderators not even deigning to offer a few words of explanation.

I see a person who runs another similar forum throwing out a lifeline to people in this one, offering to try and keep things the way they still are. His words about another similar forum are prophetic and I think are being ignored by members here.

Unfortunately the last message of "I told you so" will go unnoticed when the site disappears.

[Kylwell]

Mods are offering nothing because it's private. If the site owners wants ya'll to know he'll let you know.

One of the biggest issues, tho', is that the architecture this forum is built on is obsolete and moving it would be neigh impossible or at least extremely tedious. Meanwhile we're open to exploits and bs from と お思.

So all I can say is hang tight. The support staff is doing what it can.

[Richard Baker]

Mods are offering nothing because it's private. If the site owners wants ya'll to know he'll let you know.

One of the biggest issues, tho', is that the architecture this forum is built on is obsolete and moving it would be neigh impossible or at least extremely tedious. Meanwhile we're open to exploits and bs from と お思.

So all I can say is hang tight. The support staff is doing what it can.

Thank you for posting, great to hear that some one is in charge and active.
The worst thing these past weeks is not hearing anything at all, easy to fear the worst

[Thom]

Mods are offering nothing because it's private. If the site owners wants ya'll to know he'll let you know.

One of the biggest issues, tho', is that the architecture this forum is built on is obsolete and moving it would be neigh impossible or at least extremely tedious. Meanwhile we're open to exploits and bs from と お思.

So all I can say is hang tight. The support staff is doing what it can.

I'll add my thanks also for a bit of a more informed reply. It is good to know that someone is aware and hopeful doing something. The absence of information is the worst.

[irishtrek]

Mods are offering nothing because it's private. If the site owners wants ya'll to know he'll let you know.

One of the biggest issues, tho', is that the architecture this forum is built on is obsolete and moving it would be neigh impossible or at least extremely tedious. Meanwhile we're open to exploits and bs from と お思.

So all I can say is hang tight. The support staff is doing what it can.

I take it then John and TER-OR are aware of problems with things here and something will be done about the problems??
For those who've mentioned the last time administrators were logged in Linda has not been logged on since 2003, TER-OR last April and John was last on here back in August.

[etssp]

From the list of 10 moderators, there are only two people who are active, Trekmanscott and Kylwell.

https://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/me ... group&g=12

There are five administrators, but none of them are active.

https://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/me ... ?mode=team

[Kylwell]

From the list of 10 moderators, there are only two people who are active, Trekmanscott and Kylwell.

https://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/me ... group&g=12

There are five administrators, but none of them are active.

https://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/me ... ?mode=team

Just because they're not posting doesn't mean they aren't here. I have nothing better to do and somebody has to keep the Trekies in line. Meanwhile we've got the FB group to manage which is quite frankly exhausting.

[southwestforests]

Meanwhile we've got the FB group to manage which is quite frankly exhausting.

Which shows that the Facebook group needs to be deleted in the interest of collective health and well being.

[irishtrek]

Meanwhile we've got the FB group to manage which is quite frankly exhausting.

Which shows that the Facebook group needs to be deleted in the interest of collective health and well being.

Plus, I've checked the FB page for SSM and nothing in at least 2 months if I remember correctly.
Can't help but wonder if SSM has been hacked.

[Thom]

Meanwhile we've got the FB group to manage which is quite frankly exhausting.

Which shows that the Facebook group needs to be deleted in the interest of collective health and well being.

Plus, I've checked the FB page for SSM and nothing in at least 2 months if I remember correctly.
Can't help but wonder if SSM has been hacked.

There is the SSM site on the Face run by John and that hasn't had much activity in a while. However, there is another SSM site that gets a lot of traffic, so there are two SSM sites on the Face.
https://www.facebook.com/starshipmodeler

...and one titled Groups.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/starshipmodeler

[WraithVerge]

...

[Kylwell]

Which shows that the Facebook group needs to be deleted in the interest of collective health and well being.

Plus, I've checked the FB page for SSM and nothing in at least 2 months if I remember correctly.
Can't help but wonder if SSM has been hacked.

There is the SSM site on the Face run by John and that hasn't had much activity in a while. However, there is another SSM site that gets a lot of traffic, so there are two SSM sites on the Face.
https://www.facebook.com/starshipmodeler

...and one titled Groups.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/starshipmodeler

this is the official SSM Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/starshipmodeler

[lohengrin]

Just an FYI, John is not the only one with admin level access and the lack of

i'm not talking about forum admins. mods, admins and founder level access can't do anything with a problem like this. you need someone with hosting cpanel access or someone with ftp and mysql access.

Just because they're not posting doesn't mean they aren't here. I have nothing better to do and somebody has to keep the Trekies in line. Meanwhile we've got the FB group to manage which is quite frankly exhausting.

this has been going on for 5 months or more. people have been politely posting that the forum needs fixing and they've been patiently waiting for an answer. you mean to say that people who can do something about this have seen aforementioned posts and -still- done nothing?

Mods are offering nothing because it's private. If the site owners wants ya'll to know he'll let you know.

so mods -might- know what's going on, but are not saying? okay, fair enough, you don't own the site so i can understand your position.

If the site owners wants ya'll to know he'll let you know.

if that -truly- is the m.o. of the owner then that a -really- bad way of running a community. let alone a business. bearing in mind that any number of these forum members could also be paying customers (i.e. buying from the ssm store).

One of the biggest issues, tho is that the architecture this forum is built on is obsolete and moving it would be neigh impossible or at least extremely tedious.
So all I can say is hang tight. The support staff is doing what it can.

okay, i'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're being purposely misinformed and -not- just making up stuff to appease people. i have 14 years of experience with php and phpbb. i have done dozens of tweaks, updates, upgrades, migrations, add-ons and all manner of fixes during that time. i have moved my forum to 3 different hosts in the process.

i'm telling you now, this forum is -very- easy to fix (even if it's running on v2 which i doubt). you don't need ''support staff'' (this isn't flipping ebay), you just need someone who knows wth they're doing with the right access. i don't see you giving me that access, but i'll gladly help if asked. i can also recommend professionals who are php and phpbb guru's if needed.