Future floor polish

Post by **TER-OR** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:47 pm

Read through the washes post - you have a bunch of choices.

For your work, an oil wash might be best - but light as the scale is huge. Oil paints can be wiped away unlike enamels which must be removed with cloth moistened with thinner. That's stinky and takes a long time.

Acrylic washes are OK.

My favorite now is ink in Future, and going light... It's so subtle.

lestatdelc · Post by **lestatdelc** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:46 pm

Does anyone have any experience fogging up or whitening up Future to make it into a translucent topcoat?

I have been working on foil techniques which have yielded some great specularity sheens on the metal hull plates (creating the mini-plates of the aztec pattern, etc.), which directionally "pop" or "flip" within the various light angles, like real metal plating would (it is real metal). But want to knock it way back and whiten it up fairly uniformly over all.

Any advice?

macfrank · Post by **macfrank** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:00 pm

lestatdelc wrote:Does anyone have any experience fogging up or whitening up Future to make it into a translucent topcoat?

If you don't want to flatten Future, you can mix a small amount of gray acrylic paint with Future. Tamiya and Testors Acryl work well. The mix ratio depends on the effect you're after.

krako · Post by **krako** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:54 pm

Mixing enough Tamiya flat base with Future will "whiten" it up. Check out this site for all your Future questions...

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

macfrank · Post by **macfrank** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:21 pm

krako wrote:Mixing enough Tamiya flat base with Future will "whiten" it up. Check out this site for all your Future questions...

There's a big problem with mixing too much Tamiya Flat base into Future - it'll be whiter in some areas (where the Future goes on thicker) than others. It's hard to control the effect.

A light gray acrylic paint added to the Future provides a far more even finish... and if you don't want to flatten the color, it's the easiest solution.

lestatdelc · Post by **lestatdelc** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:48 pm

The real trick I am going for is to still allow enough of the reflected light from the underlying metal sheen (or rather the metals specualirty) which changes form direction of angle viewed to still come through (VERY subtly) while getting a very even "color" of a white (or rather a light gull grey as white itself is a little too harsh).

I am looking for something which will let through maybe 10 % or so of the underlying metal reflected specualrity. I realize that getting the "color" even and not going more opaque where it builds up thicker (around corners and edges for example).

Was also thinking maybe going a hole other direction and lay down a solid light gull gray paint, then laying down the overlay of clear pearlescents) though the issue there is that I would not want any visible "flakes" in the pearl, and also you don't get the control over adjacent panels "popping" a different direction. In addition I want little color (almost none), but more for value not hue.

A real tough nut to crack.

The foil burnishing and directional polishing does it perfectly as far as getting the directional angle value shifts, but it is way too heavy and reflective. Hence my desire to whitening up and knock back the underlying metallic luster by about 90%.

If there was some sort of bleaching or chemical process to actually affect the reflective property of the metal and/whiten it up (i.e. a sort of metal bleaching).

Anything?

lestatdelc · Post by **lestatdelc** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:59 pm

krako wrote:Mixing enough Tamiya flat base with Future will "whiten" it up. Check out this site for all your Future questions...

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

Yeah I was reading that website (great stuff there in the tips section).

It is driving me nuts, because I know exactly what I want the end result to do, but finding a method to get there is killing me. I have down the metal directional polishing on foils pretty well (if I ever get around to modeling some 1950s: bare metal aircraft I am gonna be able to produce some killer kits)... to get the metals specularity to reflect and pop in contrasting directions of sheen, and within an aztec panel caused by the hull plate curvature, which REALLY show off the subtle shifts in the complex compound curves of the hull surface and really adds scale and depth in a phenomenal way. If done overall it would look like a huge bare metal ship made of polished medical steel or metal (it is in essence really a metal skinned Enterprise). But it needs to simply be knocked way back and "whitened" up.

If I can get a method of whitening up the Future and doing it in a way that will give me an even consistent translucent color, then this would be a perfect finish, since it would also hold up to handling and cleaning without any real wear and tear as Future is tough as hell (I mean it is built to be walked on for F-en sake).

BTW, what are you planning on as far as finish on your refit Krako?

lestatdelc · Post by **lestatdelc** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:04 pm

macfrank wrote:
lestatdelc wrote:Does anyone have any experience fogging up or whitening up Future to make it into a translucent topcoat?
If you don't want to flatten Future, you can mix a small amount of gray acrylic paint with Future. Tamiya and Testors Acryl work well. The mix ratio depends on the effect you're after.

Well the final finish will be a satin, to matte finish. About half way between satin and matte I would say. But whatever I do to get the overall color and metal specualirty levels locked in... I will be sealing it once with Future, then decals, then a coat or two of pure Future to level it all smooth, then the satin/matte final finish (masking the portals and windows to keep them high-gloss) so I don't have any gloss reflections in the hull plates.

macfrank · Post by **macfrank** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:28 pm

lestatdelc wrote: If I can get a method of whitening up the Future and doing it in a way that will give me an even consistent translucent color, then this would be a perfect finish, since it would also hold up to handling and cleaning without any real wear and tear as Future is tough as hell (I mean it is built to be walked on for F-en sake).

Future is very sensitive to ammonia, alcohols and petroleum distilates... so it's tough, to a point.

I've used Future + gray acrylic over a metal finish, and I got a nice, light white "haze" over it. You just have to experiment - start with a mix of Future and a little bit of light gray acrylic (say 10:1 Future:gray) and spray it on a test piece of styrene, painted/foiled the way you plan on doing the final model. You can also use different tones of gray (from "cool" to "warm") for different effects.

Frank

lestatdelc · Post by **lestatdelc** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:55 pm

macfrank wrote:Future is very sensitive to ammonia, alcohols and petroleum distilates... so it's tough, to a point.

I knew it was very reactive to ammonia (which is used to wipe it away and clean up/remove it), but wasn't aware that alcohol would also affect it as well. Good to know, as I use thinned rubbing alcohol to remove oils, fingerprints, etc. from parts and assemblies all the time.

macfrank wrote:I've used Future + gray acrylic over a metal finish, and I got a nice, light white "haze" over it. You just have to experiment - start with a mix of Future and a little bit of light gray acrylic (say 10:1 Future:gray) and spray it on a test piece of styrene, painted/foiled the way you plan on doing the final model. You can also use different tones of gray (from "cool" to "warm") for different effects.

Cool (pun noted). I have been using the alternate 1701-A secondary hull piece that comes with the PL refit kit as my foil testbed, so I will be trying it all out there until I have a locked down method that delivers consistent, on-target results, before I go to the actual kit (which i haven't even begun to build yet).

How have you approached getting an even color and amount of opacity/transparency in the translucent coat(s) in an overall kit vessel hull?

macfrank · Post by **macfrank** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:22 pm

lestatdelc wrote: How have you approached getting an even color and amount of opacity/transparency in the translucent coat(s) in an overall kit vessel hull?

I've used the Future + light gray mix (sometimes Future + light gray + Testors flat) to give aircraft models a "scale" effect. On a few models, I noticed that it gave the bare metal surfaces an interesting hazy effect. It's hard to photograph.

Frank

lestatdelc · Post by **lestatdelc** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:06 pm

macfrank wrote:I've used the Future + light gray mix (sometimes Future + light gray + Testors flat) to give aircraft models a "scale" effect. On a few models, I noticed that it gave the bare metal surfaces an interesting hazy effect. It's hard to photograph.

Sounds very much like what I am going after. The FS 36495 Light Grey or perhaps the FS 36375 Light Ghost Gray are the colors I am thinking of mixing with Future.

Did you have any problems/issues with getting it consistent across the entire model/surface?

Sorry to be so pesky with the questions, but this is rapidly turning into a mania here and am hoping for a solid solution. So thanks for your feedback and also in advance of any and all advice and information on your experiences.

macfrank · Post by **macfrank** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:21 pm

lestatdelc wrote: Did you have any problems/issues with getting it consistent across the entire model/surface?

All the acrylics I've tried have no problem mixing evenly with Future. After all, it's just a clear acrylic with some ammonia in it. Future slightly tinted with gray (or any other acrylic) will go on consistently, as long as you put on many thin, even coats. The only way it'll be inconsistent is if you soak the surface and the tinted Future collects in a corner.

lestatdelc wrote:Sorry to be so pesky with the questions, but this is rapidly turning into a mania here and am hoping for a solid solution

the quickest and most solid solution is to go and test it. You know the effect you're after, so you'll have to experiment.

lestatdelc · Post by **lestatdelc** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:21 pm

macfrank wrote:All the acrylics I've tried have no problem mixing evenly with Future. After all, it's just a clear acrylic with some ammonia in it. Future slightly tinted with gray (or any other acrylic) will go on consistently, as long as you put on many thin, even coats. The only way it'll be inconsistent is if you soak the surface and the tinted Future collects in a corner.

Cool. Sounds good. I will definitely give that a go. I dusted on several coats of Testors Dullcote over the bare foil and it is already looking really really good. I think prior to that, dusting several coats of the gray tinted Future on first, then locking that in with a few coats of pure Future (decals) then a final dusting or two of dullcote to get the actual final sheen to a satin/matte will work really well.

Just the couple of dustings of dullcote last night hid some of the micro swirls and garbage scuffs (caused just from handling), and flattened out the metal specularity in the directional aluminum grain nicely. You can barely make them out under a magnifying lens under bright color balanced lighting. It gives a damn near perfectly smooth white sheen of varying value depending on light angle and viewing angle. The micro pebbling that a matte or dullcote give (which is why dull and matte look dull and matte) diffuse the light in inperceptable ways which act to "fill" the metal grain of the aluminum in such a way that all you get is a smooth value but without losing any sharp edge definition or clarity of the plate edges/lines. It is still a little too exaggerated (the amount of differentiation between plates) from last nights test, but I hadn't knocked it back with the "whitened" Future yet, so that (with any luck) will be the solve. By pulling up (whitening) the "darker" plates and knocking down the brightness (glare) of the "brighter" plates. But as I mentioned, the beauty of this is that none of the plates are actually brighter or darker. It is all dependent on light angle and viewing angle. So the individual aztec plates "dance" in a very subtle way. A single plate will be darker when viewed in one direction and light, lighter with just a degree shift in light and/or viewing angle, and actually gradiate subtly because of the hull curvature within the plate.

The other advantage of this approach I foresee is, once the few initial coats of "whitened" Future go on, I can then mask the "sub patterns" on the aztecs, and give one of the Future coats a very subtle tint with food coloring for the very subtle gold, green and blue hints in the random sub-aztec pattern plates.

Since that would be masked onto the initial few Future coats, it should stand up well to low-tack masking methods without marring the finish at all, then the color tints Future dusting, then a few 100% clears, decals, a clear or two to lock it all in and level out decal edges, etc., then the final finish sheen (satin/matte).

I am getting really amped on the process I am developing here based on the initial rough results. Hopefully I can get something to turn out in my crappy little digital Cannon camera and post it on the website but not sure if it will hold up in digital photography.

Antenociti · Post by **Antenociti** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:35 am

krako wrote:Mixing enough Tamiya flat base with Future will "whiten" it up. Check out this site for all your Future questions...

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

Wahey!

I lost my bookmarks some months back and one of the greatest losses in that list was this website - I could simply not find it again and was seriously peeved... but now it's back with me!

Thank you!

Post by **TER-OR** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:01 pm

Ya know, pearl powders or iridescent powders might be a help with your specularity issues.

I've mixed them in Future - you've got to keep them mixed - and sprayed over colors - and it reflects differently based on the angle viewed...

Sluis Van Shipyards · Post by **Sluis Van Shipyards** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:23 pm

Something I haven't seen mentioned is how long to wait between coats? I mean if you lay down light coats, how long do you go back over it?

Post by **TER-OR** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:42 pm

between coats of Future? You don't need to wait long. A few hours at most if the humidity isn't high. Usually I leave things sit overnight anyway.

Sluis Van Shipyards · Post by **Sluis Van Shipyards** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:19 pm

TER-OR wrote:between coats of Future? You don't need to wait long. A few hours at most if the humidity isn't high. Usually I leave things sit overnight anyway.

Well sonuva! I could have done another coat already!

I guess I'm waiting overnight now.

Paulbo · Post by **Paulbo** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:05 pm

OK, how's this for the stupid question of the day - does anyone know where in Southeastern Massachusetts you can buy Future?

The aisles of the local Stop & Shop are filled with every quicky floor cleaning gizmo imaginable (Swiffer this, Chlorox that, Oxyclean the other thing, Orange Glow ....) but no normal, everyday Floor Wax! They don't even offer it via PeaPod.com!

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:57 pm

Paulbo wrote:OK, how's this for the stupid question of the day - does anyone know where in Southeastern Massachusetts you can buy Future?

The aisles of the local Stop & Shop are filled with every quicky floor cleaning gizmo imaginable (Swiffer this, Chlorox that, Oxyclean the other thing, Orange Glow ....) but no normal, everyday Floor Wax! They don't even offer it via PeaPod.com!

Have you tried Wal-Mart? That's where I get mine.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

Paulbo · Post by **Paulbo** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:09 am

Oh, fine, Kenny, come up with an obvious answer. Heading off to Wally World this afternoon. Thanks! Let you know how it works out.

Liberator · Post by **Liberator** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:36 pm

Does anyone know if this product is available down under? Or is ther an equivalent product? Any Aussies using this?
Thanks

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:13 am

Liberator wrote:Does anyone know if this product is available down under? Or is ther an equivalent product? Any Aussies using this?
Thanks

I think for our friends in the U.K. it goes by the name "Johnson's Klear." Perhaps it's the same downunder. It's a clear acrylic floor polish.

Hopefully this will provide a lead.

Kenny

Kenny · Post by **Kenny** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:49 am

Liberator wrote:Does anyone know if this product is available down under? Or is ther an equivalent product? Any Aussies using this?
Thanks

In New Zealand (probally same supplier) it is ScJohnson Wax Klear.

I got mine from a Foodtown which I think if now in Oz is at least Ozzy owned

Dr. Yo · Post by **Dr. Yo** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:39 am

I've read through this thread, and have a couple of questions-given that
you can add Ta,iya flat base to Future, (1) what ratio is good, and (2) is
it compatible with Gunze Sangyo acrylics? ( I know Future alone works
just fine, just want to be sure about the combination. )

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:45 am

Well.... I've used Future to extend the color in Tamiya paints so I don't think it should be an issue with Gunze. As for the Flat Base, it generally takes just a bit to flatten a color but with clears I've noticed it takes a buttload more.

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:57 am

kylwell wrote:Well.... I've used Future to extend the color in Tamiya paints so I don't think it should be an issue with Gunze. As for the Flat Base, it generally takes just a bit to flatten a color but with clears I've noticed it takes a buttload more.

Robb,

What do you mean by "extend the color?" Do you mean slow its drying time?

Thanks,

Kenny

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:21 am

Well, it's liek adding white to a color but without making the color a tint (shades are what you get when you add black to a color). Thins or extends the colors without changing the hue or consistancy of the paint.

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:06 am

kylwell wrote:Well, it's liek adding white to a color but without making the color a tint (shades are what you get when you add black to a color). Thins or extends the colors without changing the hue or consistancy of the paint.

Hmm...I think I follow. Is this the same thing as conditioning a paint?

Kenny

Starship Modeler Discussion Forums

Future floor polish

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