Aves Apoxie Scuplt - What's the trick??

Johnnycrash · Post by **Johnnycrash** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:01 pm

OK. I'm no newbie to putties, fillers, and the like. But, I just can't seem to master this stuff. Sure, I can mix it all up (without putting it in a coconut) and get it to set up. I can working it real nice to fill the area I need or to build it up.

But, when it comes to sanding it, all I seem to do is clog my sandpaper, wet OR dry. And yes, I waited for it to set up, in same cases for days/weeks (mostly 'cause I got busy with other stuff).

Thoughts??

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:13 pm

(scratches head)

You sure you're mixing it propperly, even ratios that kinda thing?

What color are you using? I ask because we've found that the black can be somewhat problematic to use.

Johnnycrash · Post by **Johnnycrash** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:21 pm

Yup. Mixed properly, equal amounts of Part A/Part B. I am using the Natural. And I'm scatching my head too.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:53 pm

dang, never had much of an issue with it clogging. I mean a bit, but a sharp wack on the bench edge clears it up.

A lot less than that nasty green stuff.

Johnnycrash · Post by **Johnnycrash** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:04 pm

It doesn't just clog the sandpapaer, but gums it up. It ruins the paper so that you can not clear it. I've had a little buildup before, and as you say, a good whack, and you're off and running again.

Funny about the Squadron Green. I love the stuff. I am currently using the White, since that's all I was able to get. I have to mail order ALL my modeling supplies. And I find the White a little grainy, while the Green is very smooth. Oh well, I guess that's why they make so many different kinds.

Now, if I could just get this Aves to work like everyone else says it works...

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:16 pm

Well that sounds like it's not curing completely.

Not sure what would cause that, perhaps an old or bad batch?

Where is High Priest Zombie when we need him.

Post by **TER-OR** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:02 pm

I've never had that problem. If mixed well, it sands well for me - using standard wet sanding black 3M sandpaper or Squadron sticks. I make sure it's pretty fully wet area, but I don't know what to tell you.

seeker · Post by **seeker** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:34 pm

Johnnycrash wrote:It doesn't just clog the sandpapaer, but gums it up. It ruins the paper so that you can not clear it. I've had a little buildup before, and as you say, a good whack, and you're off and running again.

Funny about the Squadron Green. I love the stuff. I am currently using the White, since that's all I was able to get. I have to mail order ALL my modeling supplies. And I find the White a little grainy, while the Green is very smooth. Oh well, I guess that's why they make so many different kinds. :)

Now, if I could just get this Aves to work like everyone else says it works... :? :roll:

Put the model someplace warm; low temperatures can slow the curing process of epoxies considerably.

Mr. Badwrench · Post by **Mr. Badwrench** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:59 am

I've had similar problems, though maybe not as bad as you describe. So now when I wetsand I use total immersion. I sand in the kitchen sink, with a thin stream of warm water running over the part. It works pretty well.

eeun · Post by **eeun** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:24 am

Are you using the actual putty, or the paste?

I've had the problems you describe with the paste, which for me never seems to completely solidify to my liking, regardless of the size of the mix. I've been quite disappointed with it.

The putty, on the other tentacle, has been amazing. It does tend to clog files and paper more than other putties, but I compensate by shaping it as much as I can before it solidifies.

Another trick I've found is to wipe the sandpaper across a bar of soap a few times at the start of and during wet sanding. I also start sanding with a stronger grit than if I was just sanding down my usual automotive spot putty.

Johnnycrash · Post by **Johnnycrash** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:41 am

Well, I have been giving it extra cure time, just to make sure. And cool temps is NOT the problem, trust me...

As for paste... This stuff I have comes in two little "tubs". Is that the paste?? I have no clue. I got it from SSM, it's the smallest set.

When I sand, it's wet. Not running water wet, but pretty drenched. Doesn't help. It doesn't seem to completely cure and become hard hard like it should. That would explain it. But why is it doing that??

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:44 am

That's the right stuff.

I'm still at a loss. I grind the stuff with Dremels, sand it with everything from 65 to 800 grit without an issue. Wet, dry, damp.

Maybe it just doesn't like you?

mech · Post by **mech** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:16 pm

It would seem that you are not alone in your struggles. I too have had some sanding problems. Clogged paper etc. I'm careful with making the ratio as accurate as possible. I have let the stuff set for weeks, (hell, one model is going on months) and still have had touble getting it to sand.

Strangely enough, sanding with my dremel seems to work best. I've little or no luck sanding with regular sanding paper of any grit. Admittedly, I have not tried wet sanding. This I will try before condeming the product. Everyone else seems to have great luck with it.

Question to the experts as an add on.

How do you measure yours for mixing?

thanks
j

Johnnycrash · Post by **Johnnycrash** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:19 pm

kylwell wrote:Maybe it just doesn't like you?

I'm starting to think that.

macfrank · Post by **macfrank** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:22 pm

Maybe it's a a bad batch? It's not goopy in the tubs is it? That would make it the paste.

Maybe you're not mixing it completely. I use talcum powder to reduce the stickiness and make it easier to mix thouroughly.

Johnnycrash · Post by **Johnnycrash** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:35 pm

macfrank wrote:Maybe it's a a bad batch? It's not goopy in the tubs is it? That would make it the paste.

I wouldn't say goopy as such. It's thick and paste like. It's like used chewing gum, but a little drier. When you pull a piece off, it doesn't come away smooth. It more breaks away, or tares.

Maybe you're not mixing it completely. I use talcum powder to reduce the stickiness and make it easier to mix thouroughly.

I kneed it and kneed it, then I need it some more. And I kneed it again, it's all such a bore.

So yeah! I mix it thoroughly.

Antenociti · Post by **Antenociti** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:40 pm

It's not cured properly - duff batch I expect, ti should go rock hard and sand very smoothly without clogging.

Pat Amaral · Post by **Pat Amaral** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:52 pm

I know the secret. Don't sand at all! I mix the stuff so it has the consistancy of playdoh. Then I grab a small amount with a dental tool and trowell it into whatever needs filling. Next I dip the tool in rubbing alcohol and dress the area until it's smooth and even. I keep working the area until I'm happy with the results. Finally, I clean up the area with an alcohol soaked Q-tip. It's been my experience that the alcohol seems to help it cure just a little bit faster and maybe even harder. I haven't sanded a putty job since I started using Aves.

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:47 pm

I sensed a disturbance in the Aves. I was mixing putty, and I could feel the tremors. A name appeared on the putty..."Johnnycrash" it was.

I read you problem here. I have never experienced the issue before, even with mixtures that were a little off.

I'm thinking you've got a bad batch. I would talk to the church about your issue through Aves studios. Remember the promise of Aves:

"Fear not, when all others have left you, look to Aves. Aves you see, has the strength of the ram on the mount. Come to Aves on bended knee in your time of need, and thou shalt be saved."

~ Sandings 15:18

Some words that give me comfort are:

"Aves, of all the mediums, shall gleam with the shimmer of the still pond when sanded, and shall forgiveth thy sandpaper and implements. Aves, you see, loved thee and thy tools and thy workbench. Beware the false monkey god Squadron and Bondo. He dulls the files, clots the sandpaper, rusts the plowshares, defiles the women, and bringeth sex mad babboons to your workbench."

~ II Finishes 9:8

Aves should blend seamlessly, yet solidly with styrene, Brother johnny. It will be of virtually the same hardness. I am certain a Philistine or Bondite has certainly infiltrated the Church of Aves. Meditate on this, I will.

Kenny

mech · Post by **mech** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:26 am

That was the best bit of writing I've seen here yet.

j

Scotaidh · Post by **Scotaidh** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

I'm having the same problems as Johnnycrash. I have the off-white/cream coloured stuff. Measuring the proportions is tough - it comes down to trying to get the same amounts of a sold and a liquid - not easy. The solid stuff scoops out nicely, but the sticky stuff comes out like pudding, gets everywhere. The result is a rubbery "solid" that clogs sandpaper and files alike, and is difficult to deal with. It seems to 'give' under pressure so the surround is sanded not the Aves. And, this after curing in a warm room for a week.

Hard application of a wire brush is required to clean my files, so I have abandoned the nasty stuff and gone back to Squadron Green. I know how to deal with its problems.

Someone on the boards used Glaziers Putty, so I bought some and later noticed that the solvent in it is MEK. I have no ventilation in my workroom this time of year, so I've delayed trying the Glazier's until warmer weather, when I can have the window open.

I'm starting to seriously think of using some kind of artist's medium, if I can find something suitable. I have not tried yet the Avies apoxie Sculpt - I know you guys swear by it, but after my experiences with the Paste I'm a little reluctant to try it. Are the two at all similar?

woozle · Post by **woozle** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:09 pm

I've had the same issue.. you can crease it with your fingernail. Half the time, it's because I model in my garage and it's cold, so it needs a few days to cure completely.. but I've also seen a couple cases where it just plane didn't cure after a week and that mist be a bad guess on the 50/50 mix.

Quick quiz question sparky, are the results EXACTLY the same every time? Help us Obi Wan Zombie, your our only hope!

rpauly · Post by **rpauly** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:17 pm

Scotaidh wrote: I'm starting to seriously think of using some kind of artist's medium, if I can find something suitable. I have not tried yet the Avies apoxie Sculpt - I know you guys swear by it, but after my experiences with the Paste I'm a little reluctant to try it. Are the two at all similar?

I tend to use the paste as an adhesive - it works very well. It's a tad too goopy for use as a filler IMHO. Apoxie Sculpt is what I use for filler and adding detail. It is much firmer and easier to sculpt.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:30 pm

I eyeball the 50/50 mix but the big trick is mixing it well and thoughly. It's not good enough to look well mixed (we've found), mashing and folding for about 5 minutes makes sure it well mixed.

mech · Post by **mech** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:44 pm

Kylwell wrote:I eyeball the 50/50 mix but the big trick is mixing it well and thoughly. It's not good enough to look well mixed (we've found), mashing and folding for about 5 minutes makes sure it well mixed.

Words to live by. Also a lesson learned the hard way.

(well, not hard actually, I didn't mix it thoroughly)

j

woozle · Post by **woozle** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:03 pm

hmm.. yes.. i think that's my thing too.

Species5618 · Post by **Species5618** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:04 pm

Kylwell wrote:I eyeball the 50/50 mix but the big trick is mixing it well and thoughly. It's not good enough to look well mixed (we've found), mashing and folding for about 5 minutes makes sure it well mixed.

Kylwell is right.

I just started using it, bought it form SSM store and had no problem with it once it was dried for 24 hours. And it sanded even better than styrene.

We seem to get a post like this every month.

ignatz · Post by **ignatz** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:16 pm

Maybe you can mix in a little extra hardener? I don't know. I haven't had this problem yet. But I do have an older bucket of Aves.

Arklan · Post by **Arklan** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:21 am

never tried the paste, even though i have some. but the sculpt works wonderfully.

Post by **TER-OR** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:52 am

The paste is difficult to work with. Make sure the two parts are well mixed before scooping them out of the container.

I've abandoned the paste, it's just too hard to work with. The putty is great. It can be worked a lot before curing. A set of sculpting tools and small spatulas are very handy.

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Aves Apoxie Scuplt - What's the trick??

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