4017 Decade Counter ?

[SpaceDuck]

Workin on a project I got ahead of myself and fashioned eleven LEDs for a chase pattern nacelle effect. Um, eleven happened to fit but then I reread the specs on a 4017 and realized it's setup for ten outputs? Is there a "cheat" to run my eleventh LED in sequence with the ten others? Any great ideas how to utilize that eleventh LED considering it's arranged in a ring with the others so the pattern will be noticeable? I'm not going to hold my breath for that so let me ask another- when utilizing the ten standard output signals (to LEDs in this case) is there any need to then run any jumper to the reset pin? It appears not but I'd like to be sure?

Thanks again in advance. My project has only progressed thanks to everyone so far!

[jwrjr]

You only need the jumper when you are counting to less than ten outputs. Is there a way to extend it to 11 outputs? Its been a while since I've used one of these chips. I would have to check. I would use a computer chip for this (I'll bet you're really surprised about that).

[SpaceDuck]

You only need the jumper when you are counting to less than ten outputs. Is there a way to extend it to 11 outputs? Its been a while since I've used one of these chips. I would have to check. I would use a computer chip for this (I'll bet you're really surprised about that).

Yeah a chip- but you're GOOD, me, I'm a dweeb remember?

The part that sucks is I probably would have used only ten LEDs but somehow the number twelve stuck in my mind so I crammed as many as I could within the diameter allowed by a 1/1000th PL nacelle? So, I only made it to eleven then find out I should have quit with ten? Heck, now it's an odd number so I can't even default to running two in parallel (driven by five outs) and have a "colliding arc" pattern? Sometimes it doens't pay to work hard at it, Ya know? Even worse maybe is I built the kitbash without planning to light it so I'm working against a few things anyway.

[Scott Hasty]

Hey Duck!

How many LED's did you get in the 1/1000?!?!?! From what I gathered, it was over TEN?!?!

I got five and it was TIGHT! The effect was quite super neato coooooool!!

I'll have to get a DV of it, convert it and link a Quicktime or WMV so you guys can judge. But after this film contest, I'm EXHAUSTED!!

Scottie

[SpaceDuck]

Scotty,
Eleven and now I find out that's too many, dang. But they're lil bitty ones (maybe half the size of a T1?) that I found while scrounging through the backroom of a new shop in town. They originally have leads that come out from either side then turn 90 degrees to jut up above the "nub/dome" of the LED. The shop owner called em "peculiar" and explained they were meant to mount below a PC board for 'display' back up through holes in the board. So I carefully bent the leads back straight and then rebent them at the base of the acrylic to come out below the "nub/dome" and mounted the neg side to a common ground brass ring collar that I cut from tube and it's the diameter of an "inner" dome on the Polar Lights 1/1000th Connie. They are small and that's what allowed eleven to fit in that diameter, yet they're bright too. I envisioned a really nifty chase sequence until I compared the 4017 specs to what I'd just built- DOH! And here I was kinda proud of how all eleven used the ring for common ground and then still kept each positive lead available for independant wiring? I thought I had a "plan"?

Any thoughts on how to "cheat" another LED out from the 4017 or to incorporate this "leftover LED" into the ten sequencing?

Oh, and I'm stuffing a 4017 and 555 in each nacelle to keep my original two leads within the pylons and maximize the number of outputs in each nacelle. I kitbashed a project and lighting it only came into consideration at the end or somethings would have been different.

[jwrjr]

I know the type. Those are usually intended to be surface-mounted, but the leads are long enough to be wired if you're careful. I used a potfull of them lighting the windows of an AMT/ERTL refit.
I only used 6 leds in each nacelle dome of a 1/1000 classic 1701. Since I used one of my infamous computer chips mine not only give a rotating effect, they fade on and off as well.

[SpaceDuck]

I know the type. Those are usually intended to be surface-mounted, but the leads are long enough to be wired if you're careful. I used a potfull of them lighting the windows of an AMT/ERTL refit.
I only used 6 leds in each nacelle dome of a 1/1000 classic 1701. Since I used one of my infamous computer chips mine not only give a rotating effect, they fade on and off as well.

I asked the shop owner if he'd call those surface mounts and he shook his head? Thanks for sharing that video- I was able to see the nice transition as the LEDs chase. It is noticably different and a very nice effect!

[b5ranger99]

Just a suggestion, and not the best one but it should work.

I assume you are using pins 1 - 7 , 9, 11 and 12 as the count pins.
Cascade "OR" gates and an inverter so the output goes true when all outputs are low (0) and use that signal to drive the 11th LED.
Bit of a pain and there is a way to do it with just inverters and diodes.

Either way it will add at least two chips.

Sorry I can't think of any thing easier.
If you really want to try this I can e-mail you the circuit designs.

[SpaceDuck]

Just a suggestion, and not the best one but it should work.

I assume you are using pins 1 - 7 , 9, 11 and 12 as the count pins.
Cascade "OR" gates and an inverter so the output goes true when all outputs are low (0) and use that signal to drive the 11th LED.
Bit of a pain and there is a way to do it with just inverters and diodes.

Either way it will add at least two chips.

Sorry I can't think of any thing easier.
If you really want to try this I can e-mail you the circuit designs.

B5Ranger99,
Thank you for thinking that up. I'll PM you with my E-mail.

[SpaceDuck]

Wednesday:

Well I redid my LED display to only have ten so I'd be using the 4017 as designed. At first only my '0 lead' out LED lit but when I ran my fingers across the 4017 looking for loose wiring and such it started to chase. Did so for a cycle or two and stopped. Repeated the process and finally found that when my finger bridges the area between pin 15, which is voltage in and pin 16 which is 'reset' I can trigger the chase pattern? Keeping my finger in that place allows constant operation or replacing my finger to that place, maybe pin 15 specifically, will 'revive' it? Any thoughts on what the heck I did?

Thanks in advance!

BTW: I left pin 15 (reset) with a wire lead on it but it is not connected to anything presently and I can see no visible short by moving any/all the wiring?

[jwrjr]

Don't EVER leave an input pin on a 4000-type chip floating (that includes 'reset'). Either use a resistor to tie it to V+, or tie it directly to ground (whatever the data sheet calls for).

[SpaceDuck]

Don't EVER leave an input pin on a 4000-type chip floating (that includes 'reset'). Either use a resistor to tie it to V+, or tie it directly to ground (whatever the data sheet calls for).

Well, then that kinda goes back to one of my initial concerns:

You only need the jumper when you are counting to less than ten outputs. Is there a way to extend it to 11 outputs? Its been a while since I've used one of these chips. I would have to check. I would use a computer chip for this (I'll bet you're really surprised about that).

I took not needing a jumper as leaving it open? So in essence I have become the 'resistor' or ground when I touch the reset pin, huh? I knew I'd finally find my purpose in life! I grabbed my 4017s out of a bin and the only website info I've looked up was for functions, not applications of the pins. I guess I'll search around for recommendation to ground or insert a resistor? Any thoughts and possible value of the resistor if that turns out to be the case?

Boy it's nice to have access to folks who know 'something' when I know nuthin! I hope you haven't tired of my questions though because next up I'll be building a supercomputer to determine the actual size and shape of the Universe using noting more than 2 cent components and bailing wire then squeezing that into the 1/1000th Ent. with voice recognition!

[SpaceDuck]

Does a 22K*(resistor) from a negative source sound right to feed and trigger the 'reset' pin#15? I looked at some online projects and it appeared a couple had that in common when not using a jumper from the last output when less than ten? I don't know what I'm doing but sometimes I can mimic what I think I see!

Thanks again!

* How about a 20K since I have those on hand?

[Balok]

From the CMOS cookbook about the 4017.

For normal operation the clock enable and the reset should be at ground.

Making the reset input positive returns the counter to zero. In this state the "0" output and the OUT terminal are positive, the other outputs are at ground.
The reset must be returned to ground to allow counting to continue. A positive voltage on the clock enable will inhibit (prevent count advance) clock operation.

[en'til Zog]

You need to run NEGATIVE to BOTH RESET and CLOCK ENABLE - pins 13 and 15. Pin 8 is GROUND or NEGATIVE and pin 16 is POSITIVE, when looking dow on the top of the 4017. No resistors needed, just connect up the NEGATIVE directly.

HTH

[SpaceDuck]

You need to run NEGATIVE to BOTH RESET and CLOCK ENABLE - pins 13 and 15. Pin 8 is GROUND or NEGATIVE and pin 16 is POSITIVE, when looking dow on the top of the 4017. No resistors needed, just connect up the NEGATIVE directly.

HTH

I had 8 and 13 to ground already so I'll just tie 15(called "reset") in there which is negative without a resistor. GREAT!

Balok,
Thanks for that imput too and it helped me but numbers are better, cept when I forget what's past ten?

If initial testing, albeit incorrectly, holds out I just might have 'done something' now!

Thanks everyone for all your help and assistance. Oh, and patience.

[jwrjr]

The value of the resistor isn't really important. I would use anything handy between 10k and 100k. So 20k or 22k should work fine.

[SpaceDuck]

The value of the resistor isn't really important. I would use anything handy between 10k and 100k. So 20k or 22k should work fine.

Um,
I followed En'til Zog's advice and simply ran the 'reset' pin to common ground and it does work? I also respect all of the input you've given me so far and what you say seems (to me) to match up with some "project" schematics which used 4017s on the web. So right now it is working but should I place a 20k resistor in there too?

Thanks

[Balok]

Nope. Pin 16 is your power pin, not an input. No resistor needed.

[SpaceDuck]

Nope. Pin 16 is your power pin, not an input. No resistor needed.

Oh, I asked for numbers and now you're out to confuse me! I was still referring to pin 15, "reset".

[Sparky]

You can always daisy chain the counters, I think we'll make up a diagram to show this.

Question about how you wired the LEDs:
Are there 10 total?

Did you sub divide the ring of LEDs so that as the pattern moves you have more than one LED off at a time, ie more than one vane in the warp aperture thingy.

There are two vanes in this ring, the compression messes with the effect. I'll look around for some better clips of it.
http://www.kc6sye.com/techmages_3_11_04_b.html

[Balok]

Nope. Pin 16 is your power pin, not an input. No resistor needed.

Oh, I asked for numbers and now you're out to confuse me! I was still referring to pin 15, "reset".

No 15 should be at ground (-), no resistor needed. Sorry for the confusion.

[tetsujin]

Hey Duck!

How many LED's did you get in the 1/1000?!?!?! From what I gathered, it was over TEN?!?!

Yeah, you just gotta buy small enough LEDs, you know? Check it:
Enterprise

[jwrjr]

Using a resistor to tie an input to a power rail (either + or ground) is the "officially recommended" way of doing it. I've never run into problems just connecting an input that should go to ground directly to ground. However, make sure that if you tie an input directly to ground you never try to drive it high (or drive a pin tied to V+ low) (duh!) The reasons should be obvious.

[en'til Zog]

Here’s an idea. You can use a 4017 to make a 10 LED array seem to ‘spin’ with one little dot running neatly around in a circle. If that’s really what you want, fine. But how about making that circle of 10 look like there are 3 spots of light spinning around? Say, in a Buzzard Collector? By using the ‘Persistence of Vision’ effect you can, and quite easily.

Normally you wire the outputs from the 4017 to the corresponding LED:

OUTPUT - 0 - 1 - 2 -
LED # --- 1 - 2 - 3 -

Note that these are the OUTPUTs from the 4017 - not the PINOUTs.

Try this:

OUTPUT - 0 - 1 - 2 -- 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 0 -
LED # --- 1 - 4 - 7 - 10 - 3 - 6 - 9 - 2 - 5 - 8 - 1 -

This technique gives you 3 apparent dots spinning around the circle of 10 LEDs. Try it. Diagram it first ‘cause this can be confusing.

This technique works and works well - one of my favorite ‘tricks’ actually.

HTH

http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/4 ... pinner.jpg

[SpaceDuck]

Sparky,
I ran it the 'traditional chaser' one by one routine. I tried to view your clips but rcvd a msg that I was missing the correct QuickTime clip and it wasn't available for download????????? I've never rcvd that msg or at least without being able to correct it, before?

En'tlZog,
I see what you're saying and before wiring things I contemplated just such an effect but this was my first project with a 4017 and I kinda looked at it as a learning experience and to start with basics?

Thanks to all the assistance and advice I've received here I do at least have a working ten LED effect. But this was just my first use for one so keep the ideas and videos (if available) coming so that I (and everyone viewing) can see other possibilities for future projects!

Sincerest THANKS to all!

[Sparky]

Sorry about that I have the zip of every codec (not everything) I found on the internet installed, nimo and another one. I just searched and found some downloads. It was the only way I could have the options to be able to edit the movies and save them without doubling the file size.

I use to have the raw mpegs taken with the camera it self, posted on my home server but it runs off old hardware that never seems to stay working.

mm how dose this work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gIoYShTcMU

yes that seems to work here's the raw rings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqulWGdLJXo

[SpaceDuck]

Sparky,
Thanks for the new links! It really helps to actually see what's described and I'll hold those for future reference. I'm happy with my modest attempt for this (my first) lighting project. I also thought about having five running clockwise and five running CC to 'collide' at the center apex?

Side note: I started this project without intending to light it then when it was coming out pretty well I went back and modified a few things to run wires through the pylons or from the saucer edges into the hull (remember this a 'Bonaventure class) and only then decided to get "fancier". Well, once I wanted the nacelle effects which eventually expanded to a 4017 and 555 in each nacelle I just went back and reopened my already painted pieces to further hollow them out. I think I can clean up and repaint the seams and eventually it won't have mucked up my paint work too bad? But the effects (all learned here) have been worth it!

Thanks to everyone because there is no way this would have happened without all the help I received!!!!