The Abbey of Aves

bluesman · Post by **bluesman** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:44 pm

Welcome, sister Ti.

Of course you know of the Aves Crusades and the Aves Inquisition.

Nobody expects the Aves Inquisition!!!!!!!!!

bluesman · Post by **bluesman** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:46 pm

Welcome, sister Ti.

Of course you know of the Aves Crusades and the Aves Inquisition.

Nobody expects the Aves Inquisition!!!!!!!!!

Balok · Post by **Balok** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:41 pm

Yea brethren, for what does a man profit if he saves his Denari and loses his Alves? ...for he will make a desert of your forest moon.

I got some Alves, best thing since blue milk. Made some holding tanks for my docking bay 94 diorama. It works well.

DennisThePhantomMenace · Mon May 19, 2008 11:47 pm

Greetings all. Looks like the consensus is this stuff is great. I'll have to pick up some during my next model store run... if they carry it. Can I scribe on Aves?

-Dennis

DennisH · Post by **DennisH** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:14 am

Can I scribe on Aves?

Yea, verily. Imbibe the scribe.

(the other) Dennis

Post by **TER-OR** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:19 pm

Thou may not only scribe, but thou may indent.
Before the Aves has cured completely, roll a curved knife blade over the surface.

All too easy....

DennisThePhantomMenace · Wed May 21, 2008 11:20 am

Thank you. You have all convinced me to convert.

-Dennis

Ti Raven · Post by **Ti Raven** » Thu May 22, 2008 12:02 am

Welcome! Now we just need to learn the secret hand shake and we'll be set!

en'til Zog · Post by **en'til Zog** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:01 am

Well, it’s not exactly a HAND shake. It involves... tools.

Ti Raven · Post by **Ti Raven** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:09 am

Oooo! Tools!

Yum!

Ti likes her tools!

btw... I need to stop off and pick up some masonry bits.
Carving patterns into tile and slate is cool but I need a harder bit.
Darned neer smothed out 2 bits. But, looking on the good side...
Those bits work just dandy on styrene...

Win~win!

Ti

DennisThePhantomMenace · Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:12 pm

Secret hand shakes with tools? What did I get myself into?! Lol...

-Dennis

Ti Raven · Post by **Ti Raven** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:56 pm

My first use of the Holy Aves,~blessed be It's chemistry~ was on a medal for the Chairman of Iron Modeler.

And.... It was goooooood!

Sister Ti, of the Abby of Aves

TREKKRIFFIC · Post by **TREKKRIFFIC** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:14 am

In case no one has discovered this yet, AVES removes CA from fingertips. I found this out by accident a few nights ago.

Ti Raven · Post by **Ti Raven** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:07 am

O' Hozanna!
I shall weep with gratitude in these upcoming months, Brother TREKKRIFFIC!

MillenniumFalsehood · Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:47 am

Aves has been . . . and ever shall be . . . my friend.

There has never been, nor shall there ever be, an epoxy putty as good and useful as Aves.

Shinnentai · Post by **Shinnentai** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:52 am

When I first started using Aves, I wasn't sure what solvents/smoothing aids worked best. Mostly I was unsure whether or not the "Safety Solvent" was worth buying if water or alcohol would do the job. After having tried out a few of the options (including Safety Solvent), I thought I'd come back to post my comparison notes:

Isopropyl Alcohol (AKA rubbing alcohol)-
Very strong but mostly non-penetrating solvent action. Evaporates very quickly when used as a tool lubricant, making very (excessively, IMO) frequent rewetting necessary, which in turn makes it very easy to use too much, turning the surface of the putty to a slurry. Oddly this does not effect the underlying consistency very much, which can lead to a few "gotchas" when attempting to fine tune thicker shapes. Once the alcohol is dissolved into the putty, it does not evaporate out, meaning areas softened for blending stay softer much longer into the cure cycle. This can also severely retard and even reverse the self skinning aspect of the putty's firming, causing the surface of the putty to continue sticking to tools until very late in the curing process.

Diluting the putty with alcohol during mixing to make it softer results in the hardened putty being slightly weaker, but not to a critical degree IMO. There's a nice visual cue for when you've used too much: you can see the putty turn milky as a result of it breaking down, but this only happens when you gone past even a slurry consistency, so you're only likely to ever see it as a film on areas where you've been doing a lot of aggressive blending, or when you've been lubricating your tools too much/too often.

Water-
Distilled or tap doesn't seem to make a noticeable difference. Solvent action is very very mild, and hardly penetrating at all. Perfect for lubricating tools, as it does not effect the putty's surface consistency unless you really really drench it. Relatively poor for blending, as it does't dissolve well enough to feather edges very effectively or efficiently. Mixing it with putty as a softener gets you results generally similar to alcohol, but you can't thin it down quite as far before it starts to break down the putty and adversely affect it's final cure strength. Water doesn't penetrate/dissolve nearly as readily as alcohol, but when it does, it seems to do more damage to the chemistry.

Aves Safety Solvent-
Less aggressive than alcohol, but more penetrating. Very nice for blending, as it does not simply slurry the outer surface the way alcohol does, but rather gives a more general & penetrating softening effect. This makes it easier to, say, control the taper of a feathered edge's thickness. Does not dramatically effect the firming cycle the way alcohol does either. Seems to bind or evaporate well, so a "wet" surface regains it's "dry" working properties in relatively timely fashion, and the self skinning stage will only be inhibited by a few minutes. Mixing the putty with Safety Solvent as a general softener results in a final cure which is noticeably softer and more flexible (and will continue to smell strongly of Safety Solvent for long time). Putty can be diluted/slurried even further than with alcohol before it starts to break down (again, only a factor in blending).

My final impressions are that each has it's own uses, albeit exclusive ones:

For lubrication, water is best, hands down, and by a long measure.

For blending and thinning, Safety Solvent beats out alcohol by virtue of both performance, and alcohol's negative side effects. For anything involving sculpting the difference is significant, and IMO more than enough to justify the extra cost. For straight no-frills gap filling though, alcohol will get the job done.

What alcohol really kicks arse at is tool cleaning. Its aggressiveness makes it much, much better at this than water or Safety Solvent. Believe it or not, alcohol even outperforms acetone in this department!

Hope this helps other Avis noobs out there. Cheers!

Ti Raven · Post by **Ti Raven** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:26 am

Thank you for posting these comparisons, Shinnentai.
I appreciate it, and it will be very helpful.

Ti Raven

Post by **TER-OR** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:31 pm

And, at the end, a thin coat of water makes the surface mirror-smooth. It seems to adsorb and allow the surface to sort of correct itself. The initial result may look sloppy, but as it cures it looks great.

Lichtbringer · Post by **Lichtbringer** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:05 pm

I cannot believe in Aves.

Today i had my first Aves experience - and i wasn´t amused.

Post by **TER-OR** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:26 pm

Confess your ill experience, Brother Michael. Confess to the congregation that we may help ease your pain and direct you upon the path of righteousness.

Lichtbringer · Post by **Lichtbringer** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:12 pm

My first try was to fill the seams on parts of my scratch-freighter. I took some of part A + B - the green part was REALLY sticky, the greybrown not so much - and mixed it properly. Then i waitet 30 minutes.

After that i took small amounts of the mixed stuff (it wasn´t really sticky), made small snakes, and tried to fill the parts of my Freighter enginepart (usually i would have used Tamiya filler or Mr Surfacer). At some gaps, the bigger ones where i could press the material in, it worked properly. But at the smaller ones it sticks more to my fingers than in the small seams - making it wet made it more flexible, but again less stickier.

I ended up with using it inside to reinforce some joints (not really needed, but better than throw it away), and dripping Mr Surfacer into the seams.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:16 pm

Uhm, why wait 30 minutes? For seam filling & what you want it as sticky as possible. Once stuck, then use fluid to smooth things.

Post by **TER-OR** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:58 pm

Really small gaps are often better suited to the Mr. Surfacer treatment. Big gaps, of course, are perfect for epoxy putty.

Your Aves brand has a green and a brown component? Or is this a plumber's putty? I always kind of thought of them as two shades of gray.

I'll give it some time when I need to work it around something - like if I put plastic wrap over a part so I can remove the cured putty. Or if I'm going to roll it into a sheet, then I'll allow it to cure half an hour or so.

Lichtbringer · Post by **Lichtbringer** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:14 pm

TER-OR wrote: Really small gaps are often better suited to the Mr. Surfacer treatment. Big gaps, of course, are perfect for epoxy putty.

It was my first try, but thats what i was thinking after all.

TER-OR wrote: Your Aves brand has a green and a brown component? Or is this a plumber's putty? I always kind of thought of them as two shades of gray.

The shop here in Germany has listed 12 different - one part seems to be always the gray, and the other the various colors. White and nature was out when i ordered, so i choose green, for a good visibility on the white styrene-sheets.

TER-OR wrote: I'll give it some time when I need to work it around something - like if I put plastic wrap over a part so I can remove the cured putty. Or if I'm going to roll it into a sheet, then I'll allow it to cure half an hour or so.

After the infos i had read before, i thought it was a good idea to wait some time to ensure that i can form the snakes without sticking all on my hands. Next time i will use it direct after mixing it.

en'til Zog · Post by **en'til Zog** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:20 pm

Um, Lichtbringer? Aves isn't just a two part putty, it's the trade name for a specific product made here in the U.S. Right down the road, here in Wisconsin, I believe. (Road Trip!)

I've tried generic two part epoxy and hate it.

Aves, on the other paw, is wonderful.

just F.Y.I.

Post by **TER-OR** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:24 pm

Yeah, the colored types are convenient. I will occasionally tint the Aves with ink to make it easier to see with gray plastic or resin.

It sounds like you're on the right path, it just takes experience.

Lichtbringer · Post by **Lichtbringer** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:27 pm

en'til Zog wrote:Um, Lichtbringer? Aves isn't just a two part putty, it's the trade name for a specific product made here in the U.S. Right down the road, here in Wisconsin, I believe. (Road Trip!

I've tried generic two part epoxy and hate it.

Aves, on the other paw, is wonderful.

just F.Y.I.

I know.

http://shop.modellpferdeversand.de/oxid ... 7.30480172

Aves Epoxy Sculpt - very hard to find here in Germany, i know only 2 online-shops who carry it. The one is a modellers-shop with ridicolous high price for it - and the other is a shop specialized for little horsemodels.

ionic1000 · Post by **ionic1000** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:19 pm

I too have become one of the faithful and blessed. Forever I shall sing it's praise!

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:04 am

Welcome, brother.

Kenny

Ti Raven · Post by **Ti Raven** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:12 am

Yea, Brother, and Welcome unto the fold!

I have, this very moment, the blessed Neutral resting upon my table.
After it's temp. is in harmony with the temp. of mine house ...
I'll be patching a hole in my front closet door... for it vexes me.
Vexes me, it does!
But mine is the path of Righteousness, and The Blessed Aves shall
soothe this trouble from my life.